Trailer choice before I make a mistake

[nikerret]

Im not wrong. And if you do care to go back and re-read the thread you linked while pounding your chest.....you will see NONE of my posts in that thread arguing with you or about GVW. You were arguing with someone else.

And for every link or source you can cite saying what you claim....I can cite an equally credible source saying what I claim is true. Case in point is rock crawlers post above.

Citing Rock Crawler isn’t a source. Please, cite an industry leader or official government document, contrary to what I’ve posted. I’m excited to see them.

If you get stopped and scaled they are gonna make sure you ain't over axle ratings. This hitch load is not on trailer axles...rather the trucks.

There are a lot of things that can be checked. What and how is going to be determined by the investigating LEO. This is more different, from LEO to LEO than from one jurisdiction to another. Everyone seems to find what they like to look for/enforce.

If you have a 14k trailer....you can put 14k on the axles.....period. not my fault that some manufactures choose the incorrect CYA method of GVWR minus empty weight for payload

Incorrect or correct is irrelevant, in that regard. If they use a “CYA” method, that will be yours to answer, if it comes up. It is unlikely to be an issue unless there is a wreck and it’s a suspected contributing factor. This is a big problem with all of the ”de-rated” trailers. I’m talking manufacturer de-rated, not printing off your own VIN plate or just registering it as such (which isn’t de-rating, at all). Technically, that is their new limit and would be enforceable as such.

 

[LD1]

Wow, you pointed out the fact that I "liked" a post. Far cry from you acting like I argued with you in the other thread and wouldn't learn....

You aren't worth the time to spend googling and linking. You can do that, and if you have I am sure you have also found contradicting information.

I really wish manufactures didn't assign a gvwr on trailers at all. List let us know what the axles are.

You insist that some LEOs make you unhook and some don't. So it seems even law enforcement cannot agree on best method....or better yet....it ain't about what is safe or what isn't....it's about an easy money grab.

If every axle and every weight is within capacity.....yet an Leo makes you unhook and now trailer is over so you are busted......ponder this: if your truck is over gvwr....will the LEO let you unhook the trailer to shed the tongue weight and all of the sudden call it good?

Seems what you are saying is that amongst LEOs....they have no standardization other that whatever suits them best at the time. Either the hitch load is part of the trailer GVW or it is part of the truck GVW...but it CANNOT be both.

 

[Gee Ray]

I have a trailer that was de-rated by the manufacturer from 15,900 plus pounds to 14,500. The sticker on the trailer states there are 2- 7,000 axles. The truck is rated at 11,400 pounds. The front axle of the truck is rated at 4,800 and the rear at 8,200. My GCWR is there for 11,400 +14,500 = 25,900 pounds. If you add the 4 axles together it is 27,000 and it does not mean a damn thing.

If the front axle of the truck is greater then 4,800 then you get a ticket.
If the rear axle of the truck is greater then 8,200 then you get a ticket.
If the front axle of the trailer is greater then 7,000 then you get a ticket.
If the rear axle of the trailer is greater then 7,000 then you get a ticket.
If the combined total of all four axles is greater then 25,900 you get a ticket.

It is that simple.

The empty weight of my truck and trailer is 15,500.
GCVW of 25,900 - 15500 = 10,400 pay load.

As long as the weight of on each axle is under the rating as stated on the vehicles label your are golden, as long as the weight rating of the tires added together is greater the axle rating. For example I run a dually and the 4 tires on the rear axle are rated at 2680 each giving a total of 10,720 pounds. Far greater then the axle rating of 8,200. The trailer tires are rated at 4080 each, so the combined rating of 8160 is greater then the 7,000 rating.

That is what the DOT will look at as far as weight. I had the same DOT cop pull me over 4 different times trying to bust me and never could. The weight was all he was worried about since I run under 26,000 pounds.

FYI if your truck is rated at 11,400 and the trailer is at 15,900 (GCVW of 26,001 or more) then you need a CDL unless you are a farmer and moving a farm related load. This does vary by state.

 

[nikerret]

Wow, you pointed out the fact that I "liked" a post. Far cry from you acting like I argued with you in the other thread and wouldn't learn....

You aren't worth the time to spend googling and linking. You can do that, and if you have I am sure you have also found contradicting information.

Saying I’m not worth the time equates to you know it isn’t out there or those sources are no different than random people. Yes, there are a lot of contradicting things, on the internet. Vetting sources is important.

I really wish manufactures didn't assign a gvwr on trailers at all. List let us know what the axles are.

Since the Federal regulations go by GVWR, I don’t think it’s optional.

You insist that some LEOs make you unhook and some don't. So it seems even law enforcement cannot agree on best method....or better yet....it ain't about what is safe or what isn't....it's about an easy money grab.

I’m saying every investigation is different. There are best practices, but rarely a best one method. Most laws started as a safety issue. Some are still just that.

As far as a money grab….a lot of the DOT crap is a money grab, in my opinion. So is seatbelts for adults. If it was really about safety, we wouldn’t allow motorcycles. On the other hand, putting 15k pounds of equipment on a trailer with a 2 5/16” coupler and a GVWR of 10k is a safety issue. Especially, when they use a 2” ball only rated for 8,000 pounds.

If every axle and every weight is within capacity.....yet an Leo makes you unhook and now trailer is over so you are busted......ponder this: if your truck is over gvwr....will the LEO let you unhook the trailer to shed the tongue weight and all of the sudden call it good?

Seems what you are saying is that amongst LEOs....they have no standardization other that whatever suits them best at the time. Either the hitch load is part of the trailer GVW or it is part of the truck GVW...but it CANNOT be both.

Standardization, among LEO’s isn’t a thing, when it comes to how individual enforcement actions are taken. Two people could get stopped, for speeding the same amount, in the same place. It‘s not automatic one gets a warning, the other a citation. Same can be said, at every level; LEO’s, prosecutors, juries, judges, etc. The totality of the situation and the induvidual circumstances are all applied by people. From one jurisdiction, to another, things are very different. Shooting a home invader, here, is no big deal. Shoot a home invader in some places, the victim is more likely to go to prison than the person who broke in.


When dealing with semitrailers (in my jurisdiction, that means that some part of the trailer weight is vertically supported by the tow vehicle, during transport; essentially, not a wagon) the GVWR of the truck should be higher than the total weight of the truck and tongue weight, on the truck tires.

The trailer GVWR is of the trailer, by itself, on a jack, if necessary. The reason for this is because the limiting factor of the trailer is assumed to be the same, connected or not. Unless you are the engineer that designed the trailer, you don’t know the limiting factor. If the limiting factor is the I-beam frame, it doesn’t matter how much weight is transferred to the truck or the jack, that part is still holding the same amount. Same can be said for many individual parts of a trailer that aren’t independently rated.

Think of it like a backpack. If a backpack is rated to hold 50 pounds (like a GVWR), we can assume that all components are capable of holding their share of up to that 50 pounds. If the backpack and all of its components weighs 5 pounds (empty weight), that leaves 45 pounds of payload capacity. When you put the backpack on, some of that weight transfers to the person carrying it (like a trailer on a tow vehicle). That weight adds to the person’s weight, which they have to carry. We don’t know the limiting factors of the backpack. Is it the straps? The zipper? The sewing or material the bottom/floor is made if? As long as we keep the total weight at or under 50 pounds, we have a reasonable expectation the backpack will perform, as expected. If we put 100 pounds in it, because the person carrying it is strong enough to carry a 100 pound backpack, that doesn’t make the 50 pound-rated backpack any more capable.

 

[nikerret]

If the front axle of the truck is greater then 4,800 then you get a ticket.
If the rear axle of the truck is greater then 8,200 then you get a ticket.
If the front axle of the trailer is greater then 7,000 then you get a ticket.
If the rear axle of the trailer is greater then 7,000 then you get a ticket.
If the combined total of all four axles is greater then 25,900 you get a ticket.

It is that simple.

As far as the axle laws are concerned. You can be legal, on axles, but still be over on other ratings. How those may be enforced is based on a myriad of factors. Also, being overweight doesn’t automatically mean a ticket (in my area, anyway). How they weigh you matters. Portable scales must be given an error factor. Fixed scales get no error factor and you can only be forced to drive to a fixed scale, if it is within a certain mileage distance, of where the LE contact occurs.

As long as the weight of on each axle is under the rating as stated on the vehicles label your are golden, as long as the weight rating of the tires added together is greater the axle rating.

Tires and axles are the big ones most guys checking trucks will look at. In Kansas, it’s partly because those Statutes are the most simply written.

That is what the DOT will look at as far as weight. I had the same DOT cop pull me over 4 different times trying to bust me and never could. The weight was all he was worried about since I run under 26,000 pounds.

Again, it depends on the LEO. I know a guy in southeast Kansas that dips tanks. I’ve never even heard of him doing anything with weights or other “trucking” stuff. He just dips diesel tanks, looking for dye. Most of the inspector guys I know are overall lazy, about truck inspections, because they are not into trucks. They do them because the have to. They get their inspections in (CVSA-certified inspectors must have a certain amount of inspections, per quarter) on trucks they don’t expect to find a problem on. A passed inspection still counts and everyone can leave happy (as happy as a driver can, anyway).

FYI if your truck is rated at 11,400 and the trailer is at 15,900 (GCVW of 26,001 or more) then you need a CDL unless you are a farmer and moving a farm related load. This does vary by state.

Let’s hope we don’t get into that.…

 

[coobie]

I have a 2012 super duty 6.2 gas with 3.73 gears. I purchased this truck to move my tractor which is a new Holland work master 70 with FEL. It looks like all I can pull is 12,500 with my truck. I can’t find anything that says I can pull more with a gooseneck than bumper pull. A gooseneck is going run a good 1,000 lbs more than a bumper pull.

if I purchase a 20’ deck over bumper pull trailer most of my weight will be up on front of trailer when I load my tractor and bush hog up. The bush hog actually will hang off trailer by three feet. So tractor has to go on first.

If I purchase a gooseneck than I more than likely will exceed my towing capacity of truck. Most 20’ goosenecks are 4800 lbs. looks like I either need to get a bigger truck or smaller tractor. No way I can afford an aluminum gooseneck.
My tractor weighs 5050lbs, the fel weighs 1600 lbs and bushhog weighs 1556. That’s 8206lbs and leaves me roughly 4300 for a trailer. Hard to find a gooseneck 20’ at 4300lbs.

Am I missing something here.

Holy Jesus what a pi$$ing match. Buy a bumper pull 22 foot trailer..

 

[Kschwennsen]

I've been in the towing industry for over 18 years. Add air bags, make sure you have a good tranny cooler and check your frame for rust/degradation. As long as the trailer has brakes and everything else looks good, just take it slow and you'll be fine. Make sure to use 4 chains on your tractor with binders.

 

[jacric2005]

My only contribution is check the payload rating. You may be surprised. I bought a 1999 F250 SD 7.3 years ago. The payload specification is only 1800 pounds. It specifically says in the owners manual "Do not put a camper on this truck". I think the 7.3 is wasted on something with this low payload. However, to pull my 2 horse slant bumper pull and my 16' flatbed with 2 tons of hay, it works fine. Still love my truck, not a real ranch truck like a newer F350 or F450 dually.

 

[deezler]

Holy Jesus what a pi$$ing match. Buy a bumper pull 22 foot trailer..

Seriously. That was my suggestion too. Truck will handle it fine.

 

[JWR]

I have a 2012 super duty 6.2 gas with 3.73 gears. I purchased this truck to move my tractor which is a new Holland work master 70 with FEL. It looks like all I can pull is 12,500 with my truck. I can’t find anything that says I can pull more with a gooseneck than bumper pull. A gooseneck is going run a good 1,000 lbs more than a bumper pull.

if I purchase a 20’ deck over bumper pull trailer most of my weight will be up on front of trailer when I load my tractor and bush hog up. The bush hog actually will hang off trailer by three feet. So tractor has to go on first.

If I purchase a gooseneck than I more than likely will exceed my towing capacity of truck. Most 20’ goosenecks are 4800 lbs. looks like I either need to get a bigger truck or smaller tractor. No way I can afford an aluminum gooseneck.
My tractor weighs 5050lbs, the fel weighs 1600 lbs and bushhog weighs 1556. That’s 8206lbs and leaves me roughly 4300 for a trailer. Hard to find a gooseneck 20’ at 4300lbs.

Am I missing something here.

The answer is always "it depends." How often will you be towing? How far? Are you towing in mountains or a lot of hilly situations? Is your F-250 a 4WD ? All those matter.

But let me pass on my own experience and then comment on where I think you are with this:

My MF2660 is roughly 1000lb heavier than your NH workmaster 70. I have loaded tires. I would guess the loaders are very much the same weight or close enough. My bucket is a very heavy 4-in-1 which weighs 1000lbs. I use a 7 ft Bush Hog brand hog which weighs 1460 lbs. I towed this 80 some miles each way in some serious mountains in WV (missing only the bucket) using my 2000 F-250 V-10 and Pequea 1018 trailer. The trailer weighs a hair under 3000lbs. No problems whatsoever. I have also towed the MF2660 and loader & bucket (without the hog) 330 miles on interstates including some long steep pulls but using a heavier trailer (approx. 1000lb heavier than the Pequea.) No problems. Your 6.5L V8 has enough torque and HP (not much different than my V-10.) The truth is the 3.5L turbocharged V6 has a few more HP than my V-10 had and equal torque figures... which is strange but true.

I have also towed the MF2660 minus the bucket and minus the hog (for 25 miles each way just to get to/from a Laneshark dealer,) on the same Pequea 1018 trailer returning with the 600lb or so Laneshark on the FEL using an F-150 3.5L Ecoboost. I do NOT recommend towing this sort of load with the F-150 other than short distances at slow speeds -- mainly due to weight of the truck being 1500 lbs lighter than my old F-250 V-10. The weight of the towing vehicle matters a LOT in terms of stability, steering and stopping. A 4WD truck will have heavier springs in back and tolerate more tongue weight better than a 2WD.

To heck with the towing capacity ratings of these various trucks. Your F-250 is plenty strong to do your towing with everything your describe. Both my old 2000 F-250 stick and my 2015 F-150 automatic towed the loads mentioned easily/well power-wise. Power is NOT the issue. Weight of the truck is an issue (you have good and plenty.) The heavier the truck the more stable towing.

I don't think the tractor necessarily has to go on first. Best is to cut and try and see what fits best for you. I do not think you can beat the Pequea trailers for quality and strength at a reasonable price. Mine is a 1018 deck-over. Pequea sells a longer 20ft deck-over which I recommend highly. There are many good brands of course.

There is nothing wrong with you using a "bumper pull" (really receiver hitch pull) trailer but there is no question that a 5th wheel design trailer is FAR better in avoiding fishtailing and sway as well as distributing the load better amongst your truck's 4 wheels. If you plan to do a LOT of towing with this entire load (and can give up normal bed space in the truck) then go to the 5th wheel trailer and don't worry over the weight. Otherwise, just use a good solid deckover with about a 20ft deck on it.