transporting fuel

[SkyPup]

Exactly, the private haulers are better at burning or blowing themselves up anyways.

We just had some dimwit mother in a pickup with two kids and six gallon milk jugs of gasoline in the bed toss her lit cigarette out the window into the pickup bed and the truck burned down to the axles. Fortunatley the kids were smart enough to bail and get away from the flaming vehicle while the Fire Rescue, Ambulance, Highway Patrol, and Hazmat personnel all took care of the hulk of burned metal.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The Risk of the of the commercial vehicle becoming involved in the accident in the first place is greater because it's being driven more miles on the highway more frequently than the lone individual driving a noncommercial vehicle. The greater the exposure the higher the risk. Why do you think insurance companies base auto insurance rates in part on miles driven per year?
A private party would not likely be transporting thousands of gallons of fuel like a commercial carrier either.
*vehicle carrying a half dozen plastic jugs of gasoline.
*If the commercial carriers were not regulated you'd probably find some of them doing exactly that but it wouldn't be only half a dozen jugs it would be hundreds to thousands of gallons.
That's why Regulation of commercial haulers is needed.
Zeroing in on private individuals does nothing in that area.
The dots time effort and resources would be better spent enforcing regulations covering commercial haulers not wasting them on private individuals.

Once again, the PROABILITY of a NON commercial vehicle being involved in an accident is no greater OR NO LESS PER MILE DRIVEN than that of a commercial vehicle. If in fact,(and yes, this is a given) there are less miles driven by noncommercial vehicle, that would lower the overall numbers, but NOT leesen the likelyhood of one individual truck being involved in a wreck on a given day. You said it yourself when you mentioned insurance companies basing rates upon MILES DRIVEN. No one, especially me, is advocating DEREGULATING commercial vehicles. In fact, show me where I've said NON commercial vehicles need to be MORE regulated. (In several instances, I've made note of the fact this is opinion of a friend who's a DOT officer) What I'm saying is, the DOT, based on NTSB numbers sees the need fast approaching to further regulate NONcommercial vehicles with sizable and/or unsafe cargoes. . And it's on the way. Nowhere did I mention "zeroing in on private individuals".What was said is the DOT will lessen the distinction betwen commercial and NONcommercial when it comes to those vehicles HAULING SAME OR SIMULAR cargos. The entire point is, a great many NONCOMMERCIAL vehicles are crossing the lines into an area that you use as an example yourself as a dangerous cargo. Again, this ISN'T ENTIRELY about cans of fuel. It's across the board unsafe hauling practices by private noncommercail vehicles.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Exactly, the private haulers are better at burning or blowing themselves up anyways.

I'm not prepared to go that far yet, but the point of my agreeing with some of what my DOT cop friend has to say is not far away from that.

"Commercial hauler carrying fuel" can range from the Kenworth tractor pulling a 9500 gallon bulk gas tanker on down to "Billy-Bobs lawn care" hauling his Exmark mower and a 5 gallon can of gas.

NONcommercial can be Me and my pick-up headed out to cut my mother-in-laws grass, on down the line to someone carrying their restoration project of an old top fuel dragster and 100 gallons of nitromethane out to the drag strip.

Too much "grey area" to suit DOT. When the pendulum swings back, it MAY hit a few of us who may or may not need to be hit. Just because you or I don't carry but 5 gallons of diesel fuel in the back of our noncommercial pick up truck, that doesn't change the fact that all too many people bend the law far beyond reasonable limits.

If it were all up to me, I'd say haul what you want, just do it in a safe and secure fashion. Fortunatly, it isn't all up to me.

IF common sense was rampant, no laws would be needed. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

 

[Soundguy]

Let's compare apples to apples. Say a COMMERCIAL landscaper is hauling his tractor behind his truck. He has a days worth of fuel in the back, along with assorted tools. It is involved in a roll-over accident.

At the same time, "Joe Homeowner" is hauling his tractor behind HIS truck, with a days worth of fuel, on his way to his new piece of property. He is involved in a roll-over accident.

Why/how is the COMMERCIAL vehicle any different? Will the wreck be any more or less catastrophic because it's got a DOT number on the door? .

The big difference is the method of fuel hauling. I.E. most likely the homeowner has plastic gas cans for his lawnmower and weed wacker.. while the comercial vehicle needs to carry his gas in an approved metal can... because of that DOT number.... And yes.. osha will cite you for having a plastic gas can in a comercial vehicle...

Soundguy

 

[Farmwithjunk]

The big difference is the method of fuel hauling. I.E. most likely the homeowner has plastic gas cans for his lawnmower and weed wacker.. while the comercial vehicle needs to carry his gas in an approved metal can... because of that DOT number.... And yes.. osha will cite you for having a plastic gas can in a comercial vehicle...

Soundguy

I understand that. I'm still licensed and carry a CDL. I use metal cans when I do haul fuel. The thing is, if my truck, trailer, and tractor is upside down and on top of someones car, it doesn't much matter to the people in that car what my fuel is in.

Too many noncommercial rigs these days with loads that are not any different for the most part, than their commercial counterparts.

DOT, and the state level enforcment officers are charged with policing the safe movement of "commerce". That can (and DOES) include the passenger cars and noncommercial trucks that SHARE the road with all the big rigs (and any other commercial trucks) As long as the laws read where you can haul your fuel in a plastic can, that's still legal. What the DOT is interested in is the over-all saftey of the truck/car hauling that can. Especially near larger suburban areas and citys, the roads are getting all too crowded.

By the way, my friend the DOT cop explained to me what comprises a "commercial vehicle" in their eyes. There was no mention of frequency, size, or any other of the ideas tossed out so far. "Is it used to make money"? In those terms, a good many CARS are commercial vehicles too. The Kentucky Officers, as well as a few other states I'm hearing of, now will pull over tractor pullers, racecar haulers, and a host of other vehicles that were once considered "hobbiest". There reasoning is, these guys compete for prize money, making them "commercial". That gives the officers an open door for inspection (and citations possibly). It would then be up to the sited offender to go before a judge and prove his "innocence" if he believes to be noncommercial.

Back to my original thought. Carry/haul EVERYTHING safely, and according to the strictest laws that MAY OR MAY NOT apply to you, and there's nothing to worry about. Don't give 'em anything to write tickets over and you go on home to play instead of sitting by the roadside explaining your interpretation of the law. In the end, you may be right, you may be wrong, but the police get to have their say one way or another.

 

[Soundguy]

I understand that. I'm still licensed and carry a CDL. I use metal cans when I do haul fuel. The thing is, if my truck, trailer, and tractor is upside down and on top of someones car, it doesn't much matter to the people in that car what my fuel is in..

Wait.. what are we talking about here.. cargo in general.. or fuel, specifically. I'm talking about fuel... lets narrow this discussion down.. and get some clarity. If our discussion has no limiting factors as to cargo, then the possibilities are endless.

Specifiacally to my comment about noncom and com fuel handling. Besides the fact that if your truck, trail, and tractor is upside down on somebody's car and they are probably smashed flat... if your hauling fuel in a metal can.. it has a higher chance of staying in that can, intact.. vs in a plastic jug.


Soundguy

 

[pipe_welder]

I hauled the fuel the other day in 2 plastic 55 gallon drums about 40 gallons in each. They were strapped in the front of my utility trailer and the empty 275 gallon tank was strapped behind them. I was passed by 2 state troopers on the innerstate and no problems. Sure is alot of fuel, may have to get rid of some of it because I have only used 10 gallons since the begining of June. This whole thing has got me re-thinking my fuel storage option I've also got a 15 gallon plastic drum I may just use that. And I found a real nice cheap pump it's one of those battery opperated jobs to fill kerosene heaters it pumped all that fuel I got at about 1 gallon per min. Thanks for all of your advise.

 

[MikePA]

I was passed by 2 state troopers on the innerstate and no problems.

I imagine NY State Troopers have more important things to be concerned about these days.

 

[MikeD74T]

Farmwithjunk, "By the way, my friend the DOT cop explained to me what comprises a "commercial vehicle" in their eyes. There was no mention of frequency, size, or any other of the ideas tossed out so far. "Is it used to make money"? In those terms, a good many CARS are commercial vehicles too. The Kentucky Officers, as well as a few other states I'm hearing of, now will pull over tractor pullers, racecar haulers, and a host of other vehicles that were once considered "hobbiest". There reasoning is, these guys compete for prize money, making them "commercial". That gives the officers an open door for inspection (and citations possibly). It would then be up to the sited offender to go before a judge and prove his "innocence" if he believes to be noncommercial. "

I've heard the NH DOT cops have tried the same tactics. Sometimes they win because most will just pay the fine and skip the hassle. However it's usually IRS that has the authority to determine what's a business and what's a hobby. Government can't have it both ways. If racing or tractor pulling is a business it's usually a money losing one rather than money making.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Wait.. what are we talking about here.. cargo in general.. or fuel, specifically. I'm talking about fuel... lets narrow this discussion down.. and get some clarity. If our discussion has no limiting factors as to cargo, then the possibilities are endless.

Specifiacally to my comment about noncom and com fuel handling. Besides the fact that if your truck, trail, and tractor is upside down on somebody's car and they are probably smashed flat... if your hauling fuel in a metal can.. it has a higher chance of staying in that can, intact.. vs in a plastic jug.


Soundguy

What I'm talking about is the muddied difference between commercial and noncommercial. In a catastrophic wreck, things like fire don't differentiate between comm. or NONcomm. license plates. This thread is about hauling FUEL, as a cargo.... Fuel doesn't always end up being the ONLY cargo in a truck at a given moment.

Also, the constant reminder of how much "safer" those metal cans are(in the back of that commercial vehicle) as opposed to those plastic cans in the back of the NONcommercial truck only serve to re-affirm my friends case. Why not require EVERYONE to be safe, regardless of who they are and where they plan on using that fuel?

IF all that's in a truck is ONE can of fuel, all bets are off.....for now. But look for (VERY SOON) transporting fuel, be it commercial or NONcommercial to fall under the same guidelines. (metal cans/permits if over 120 gallons/ect) Who better to enforce that than the guys who are already patroling the highways....... No one, even the strictest saftey advocates are promoting the idea of stopping every truck and car they see to do a "fuel can check". BUT.... These guys are constantly pulling over vehicles for various other reasons. If they should spot something deemed unsafe, let them deal with it.

I was raising the point that the DOT would like to (soon) change the definition of "commercial" and "noncommercial", at the very least, lessening the distiction between such. Hence the direction I've taken in my post's on this topic.

Some states ALREADY require CDL/commercial inspection on ANY gooseneck trailers, regardless of use or ownership.

Long and short, it has more to do with what that ONE can of fuel is riding in than just the license plate. And what we now consider "One fuel can in the back of a noncommercial pick-up truck" may be changing very soon.