transporting fuel

[Soundguy]

If you want it straight.. call your states DOT, get the info, and write down the officers name that told you that.. Comply with the info, and take that paper and tele number with you when you go get fuel.. When/if you are pulled over for some dort of non compliance issue that is counter to what you were told, politely show the note to the officer and said they you were trying to comply in good faith, according to the info that was given to you by "XXX" at the dot office. etc. You'll probably still get a ticket, and then have '2' sets of rules that differ...

Soundguy

 

[SteveInMD]

Farm truck? If you're buying fuel for a business then I'd say the haz mat rules apply to you. If you are buying as a home owner, then they don't.

If you call someone at the DOT you'll need to speak to someone that knows the haz mat rules. Not all of them do and many don't know them in detail. Most police officers only have a minimal understanding of them.

 

[LBrown59]

After all theses pages can someone give me it straight. If I want to strap a 500 gallon tank on my trailer and go to the truckstop where off road D fuel is 17cent a gallon cheaper--what do I need for a truck with farm plates?

If it were me it would be the tank - trailer - & - the truck with any plates farm or otherwise.---------------

 

[SteveInMD]

Here's a quote from a haz mat transportation FAQ from government lab. It backs up what I said. You have to be buying and selling the material for the haz mat rules to apply to you.


The key to the answer is the definition of “consumer commodity” which means a material that is packaged and distributed in a form intended or suitable for sale through retail sales agencies or instrumentalities for consumption by individuals for purposes of personal care or household use. This term also includes drugs and medicines. The Hazardous Material Transportation Act (HMTA) and its associated Hazardous Material Regulations (HMR) apply only to hazardous materials transportation in commerce. Transportation in “commerce” is any transportation that is or affects interstate or intrastate trade or traffic (in goods and/or services) in furtherance of a commercial enterprise or business. When you purchase your propane tank or cylinder for your barbeque pit, the propane and its cylinder become a consumer commodity for your personal consumption for household use and the transportation of the propane cylinder to your home is not in commerce since that transportation does not affect intrastate trade or traffic in furtherance of a commercial enterprise or business. Since the transport is not in commerce, the HMR do not apply.

Here's the link...

Safety & Health Services - Haz Mat Transportaion FAQs

It goes on to say that the DOT can regulate the the type of container in which the material is offered for sale. You wont find propane for sale in a plastic jug. After you buy it, do what you like with it. The same goes for fuel. Once it leaves the pump a the fuel station, it's yours to put into whatever you want.

 

[cowpie1]

One thing that seems to be missing from the discussion is the different laws that apply based on what the business is. Here in Iowa, the regulations are far different depending of whether the use is agriculture or not. i.e. the hours of service do not have the same restriction for drivers involved purely in agriculture. The CDL requirements are less restrictive if agriculture is the use. I have never known of a farmer being stopped and checked for a CDL and hazmat/tanker endorsement for hauling fuel for use in his farming operation. The only thing the DOT seems to be worried about if a farmer is trucking his grain to the elevator is if the equipment is in good working order and the weight is not excessive. Most states that have a large ag contingent seem to cut a lot of slack for these things than for commercial trucking operations. Even the Feds don't spend a lot of time worrying about local ag operations. Just look at the different approaches the DOT uses about covering loads: If the truck is an end dump used in commercial operations vs. a truck that is hauling grain off the farm during harvest, the rules enforced differently. Iowa requires ALL such loads be covered, but only the commercial truck will be looked at by DOT.

As with most things, it is the constiuent that can cry the loudest to the legistator that gets by with the most.

 

[cp1969]

I'm aware of the different treatment of agricultural operations. I am puzzled as to how this is somehow less of a 'commercial' operation' than, say, the grain elevator to which he sells. Is the farmer not trying to generate a profit?

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that there is a constitutional amendment that deals with this very thing...#14.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This is the amendment from which a woman's 'right to choose' is supposedly based. How it is that that particular right can be gleaned from these words but two people doing exactly the same thing (hauling grain; one a farmer, the other the elevator) are treated differently with no apparent violation of this plainly worded constitutional amendment?

 

[Tom_Veatch]

...
How it is that that particular right can be gleaned from these words but two people doing exactly the same thing (hauling grain; one a farmer, the other the elevator) are treated differently with no apparent violation of this plainly worded constitutional amendment?

I'm not lawyer, either, but it crosses my mind that maybe it's tied in with "interstate" vs "intrastate" and that clause of the constitution reserving to the states those powers not specifically granted to the feds.

Maybe local Ag operations are presumed to be "intrastate" and regulated by the individual states while commercial haulers are presumed, at least potentially, to be "interstate". The feds certainly have constitutional authority to regulate interstate commerce. Don't know how much they intrude into purely intrastate operations.

Not saying it makes any sense - a dangerous situation is no (more/less) dangerous just because a state line (is/is not) involved - but might that have an influence on enforcement agencies and practices?

 

[Soundguy]

How? Why? It's all up to the state on how to apply certain laws.

Look at farms in florida. A farm in florida does not need an occupational license/business license to sell produce that was grown or otherwise produced on the farm. However a grocery store needs a retail sales license to sell produce it buys from the farm. I.E... I can buy a head of lettuce from a farm, and they don't need a license.. however.. if I go to publix.. they need a license. This sound about the same as your delima over the fuel hauling issue? Why is non com exempt, and com not exempt, when both are doing the same thing? Guess it boils down to specific contextual application.

Soundguy

I'm aware of the different treatment of agricultural operations. I am puzzled as to how this is somehow less of a 'commercial' operation' than, say, the grain elevator to which he sells. Is the farmer not trying to generate a profit?

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that there is a constitutional amendment that deals with this very thing...#14.



This is the amendment from which a woman's 'right to choose' is supposedly based. How it is that that particular right can be gleaned from these words but two people doing exactly the same thing (hauling grain; one a farmer, the other the elevator) are treated differently with no apparent violation of this plainly worded constitutional amendment?

 

[SteveInMD]

It is up to the fed gov to step in on matters of interstate commerce. This isn't just regarding haz mat transportation either. Exactly what that means for farmers is beyond me.

A while back, truck drivers had a drivers licenses in many different states. If they had a ticket in one state, they could just use a different license for a while. Haz mat rules were different in every state. Now, even though states still issue the license it's controlled by a federal law and tracking system. For the most part enforcement of the haz mat rules is done by the states, but the regulations themselves are federal. It may just be that the states don't apply the regulations very strictly to farmers.

 

[Soundguy]

There's the selective enforcement issue. It is also probably 'fine' driven. The LE agencies probably realize they can squeeze a commercial truck carrier line for more fine money than they can a farmer driving a rusted out 1974 flatbed with farm plates hauling a drum of amonia nitrate.

Soundguy