Planters Tree Planter

[qstott]

We planted trees in those fields that were not as suitable for farming, because of the size, dampness, or ease of access. We didn't really want to remove good farm land from use, just to plant trees. We may plant more later, but for now, we asked the farmer what he considered good fields to plant, and which ones he would rather not plant. In the south, pines can be thinned after about 16 years with an expected income of 1,000-1,500 an acre. After 24 years or so they should be thinned again, with an expected income of around 4,000 dollars an acre. Pines are considered to be mature when they are 16" in diameter at breast height. That usually takes about 32 years. Hardwoods take much longer to mature. I will not get any benefit from the hardwoods I planted. I'm 52 now, and don't expect them to be harvested during my lifetime. My children, hopefully, will reap the rewards. The gap to be concerned about, is after the 15 year period, and before the trees are harvested. In our area, you can profit more from the CRP program per year than renting land for farming, but it only last 15 years. Even with pines, that leaves about 9 years without any substantial income per acre. If you can keep the taxes paid during that time, it might be a good idea to put it all in trees. We decided not to plant all the cleared land on our farm in trees. We have about 100 acres, 1/2 of which is already wooded. 1/2 of the wooded is close to maturity (another 3 or 4 years), and the other 1/2 will be about 15 years before harvest. It's much easier to convert clear farm land to woods that the other way around. We didn't want to "put all of our eggs in one basket". Right now we have about 40 acres of "farm" land left. The smart thing to do (IMHO), is to plant trees in stages. That way you can kind of rotate the havest schedule, and have a more consistant income. Bear in mind, the assistance for planting may not always be there, and reforestation can be expensive without subsidies.

 

[L_Nicholson]

Qstott,
Thanks to the info. Is the 4,000/ac number based upon today’s numbers or a projected market price.

Here is what I have… total ac is 140 ac
Deemed tillable by FSA: 57 ac
Classified forest 21.54 was thinned 7 years ago and still has some nice size trees on it. (been in the program for a long time.)
Pasture: 59 ish ac

Right now the DNR program states that if you turn any land into classified forest you will be charged 1.00/ac in taxes… in addition the crp program will give you a cash crop payment for 15 years per your soil conditions….

Here is the catch on the taxes…. If you pull the land out of the forestry program you will have to pay 10 years of back taxes plus 10%... which if you are pulling 4k per ac out of you would easily pay that out.


So… this was what I was thinking for this year…. Let the farmer continue to till what he is tilling now…. Plant trees in the crp area… and lease the pasture out… Already have a guy that wants it at 25/ac…. I’m looking for a balance of things I guess…. Like you said… putting your eggs all in one basket…

Heaven forbid I die and the wife decides to sell the place and everything is in a program lock down and no one would take the place.

 

[qstott]

The plan you have makes good sense to me. In NC we pay the full tax rate even if the land is in the CRP program. The $4000 is in current dollars, that amount is for the last thinning. (that is estimated, of course, depending on the type of trees, etc) Hopefuley the final harvest will yield more than that. The timber market is full of ups and downs. Some years back we sold timber after a large hurricane. The forestry consultant was shocked as he open the sealed bits and one company had offered more than double that of the next highest bid. We had about 12 buyers standing around in the front yard when we opened the bids and 11 of them walked off speechless and shaking their heads. The one left was the one with the high bid, and he seemed happy to get it. The consultant's expectations was about the average bid with the exception of the highest. It pays to have a consultant (that you can trust) that has knowledge of the market and the buyers when it's time to sell. The "lock in" as you say, is something to consider. When programs are available it's wise to take advantage. But, you never know when they will change. They may been none, or next year there may be one that makes you wished you had waited. It's always a good idea to diversify.

 

[L_Nicholson]

Ok guys here is a thought… given the crp programs don’t come around all the time I was running the numbers… if I have the tillable ground tilled vs putting it into the crp program.

If tilled for the next 30 years I would net around 50k for 28 ac.
If I plant trees for the next 30 years I net 133k for 28 ac.

I think the numbers speak for themselves….
I’m 32 years old and I’m looking at this as investment to use as retirement (the last harvest) and these are some things that I’ve got to consider.

1. The tillable farmer has about 15 years left in him (of course I’m sure I could find another farmer to till…)
2. Diesel fuel… we all know that unless they drill Alaska fuel prices will continue to rise.
3. Unless the government subsidizes Ethanol fuel the corn prices are not going to change substantially… I would say they are more hinged on the current fuel costs.
5. Farm land will continue to get sliced up and the demand for hardwoods “should” continue.
4. And lets say for arguments sake the bottom fell out of the economy…. I would at least have the crp payment for 15 years.

To me the number say plant all the farm ground and take the cash now and later in 30 years…

What do you think??

 

[MossRoad]

I live in northern Indiana. Back around 1990 or 91 we had some reforesting done. One patch was 4 acres of highly erodable tyner soil in A,B,C and D(slope categories) and we also had a windbreak planted around a 6 acre field of Adrian muck. We took it out of farm production. We were able to get 2150 trees puchased, planted, and side sprayed and the state reimbused us for 65% of the cost. We ended up paying $265.00 total for everything. The only stipulations were for the next 5 years we either had to mow between the rows a few times a year, or side spray with herbicide once a year. Also, no Christmas tree farming. After 5 years, we were free to do whatever we wanted with the trees. Mow them down, let them grow, log them out, anything. Indiana has some great programs available. Glad to see you are discovering them. Your tax dollars helped pay for my trees. Now let me return the favor! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[L_Nicholson]

MossRoad

wow that's great!
did you do the planting or did you have someone do it?

 

[johan3400]

L,
Just some thoughts from my point of view. The CRP program is doing a sign up from March 27 to April 14. It is my understanding the only ground qualifying for the CRP sign-up is the HEL ground. (highly erodable land) I work for the County soil and water conservation district. Much ground needs to be set into CRP, but right now only some of it would be accepted. I do not know what slopes or land class you have. CRP is a good tool, but go to your FSA office and see if you qualify. How long have you owned the ground? You need to have owned it for more than a year to get into the program.

 

[L_Nicholson]

My ground according to the forester would more than likely qualify. I have about a 50 foot drop in elevation draining to the center of my property into a creek. See attached.

I am supposed to meet with FSA around the 27th to discuss this.
They all know I've owned the property less than a year (bought it in October 2005) but they still want to meet with me concerning the programs.... I don't know if there is a way that they can side step the one year issue.

Lee Nicholson

 

[MossRoad]

The state forester came out and we did a survey of the property. He gave us a list of what trees would do well in our soil types in the two different plots. He also gave us a list of state approved foresters(private companies) that the state recommends. One of them happened to be a guy I went to high school with. We contacted the private forester and discussed the plan the state forester suggested. The private forester arranged to pick up the trees from a state tree nursery down in southern Indiana, brought them up to our property and used a small Ford 4WD tractor with a tree planter on the back. They marked out the field with some flags, then went down to our creek and filled their sprayer with water. Then his assistant drove up and down the marked rows while he sat on the back and planted trees. The planter opened ground in a continous slit. He'd stick in a tree every 8-10 feet and the planter would close the dirt around the tree and spray it. First the did every other row with white pines. Then they went back and did every other row with mixed hardwoods. It took about 4 hours to plant the 4 acres and two rows of a windbread about 300 yards long. They couldn't side spray the windrow, because the soil type was Adrian muck and it was near a creek. We have about 900 pines, 900 hardwoods and 150 firs in the windbreak. There are also 200 shrubs along the outside of the field in two rows for wildlife. Russian olive, crab apples, spice bushes and a few others. The hardwoods are mixed; 6 or 7 kinds of oaks, walnuts, poplar and cherry. A few weeks after it was done, the state forester came back out, inspected, and said OKEY DOKEY! A few weeks later we got the re-imbursement check from the state.

The attached picture shows the red outline is just outside our borders. The 4 acre field is on the left of the property. Pretty clear rows. The black line on the right is the actual property line; an old railroad grade. The blue line is a creek that goes under an old railroad bridge where it crosses the black line. The green line is the double line of firs. The trees were planted around 1991 or 92. The outside two rows in the fiels are shrubs followed by two rows of 2 yearold pines. The rest of the pines are seedlings, as were the firs. The pine trees in the field now average 30+ feet high and the bases of the trunks are 10+ inches in diameter. The pines grew fast, causing the hardwoods to reach for the sky. Nice and straight. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Someday, my kids will harvest the hardwoods, or just leave it for a nice forest. There are deer, turkey, rabbits, foxes, you name it. Surprisingly, the deer did no damage to the trees, except for the bucks rubbing a few of the pines. The shrubs provided enough browse for them and they left the trees alone. We only lost maybe 10 trees at the most since the day they were planted. That's pretty good. The folks that planned it out for us really knew their stuff.

All-in-all, I couldn't be happier with the state program. They even gave us a nice folder with the plan in it. They also made some suggestions for woodlot improvement in the existing woods. You can see those in the picture as well. About 10 acres of mixed hard and soft wood. Maples, cherry, oak and locust are the dominant trees. As the locust will be thinned out for firewood and fence posts, the oaks will fill in.

Keep us informed of your plans. I am interested in the Classified Forest program and need to look into that.

 

[1bush2hog]

Great Job MossRoad! You are giving ALL of us a benefit from your planting.

Sounds like you had a very good planter considering the small percentage of loss you had. I just planted 900 seedlings a couple of weeks ago with a dibble - mainly because I could not get mechanical planter into areas I am trying to reforest.

I am sure you are already aware of the invasive potential of russian olive. Did you purchase these from your state forestry service program? You may want to reconsider having these on your property - here is a link www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepubs/htmpubs/2525.htm

I understand the wildlife benefit, but I also understand the invasive nature of these and would highly discourage anyone from planting these based on my land clearing experience. The thorns on the mature trees will penetrate tractor tires and do not decompose too quickly either, not to mention they are tough on everything else too. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

I am getting rid of ALL the russian olive I have (hopefully) and replanting with other species of wildlife mix that I purchased thru the NCFS.