Tree service owner indicted in death

[EX3200]

Hard to conclude which of the two was dumber.

Nice way to talk about someone who just lost his life. I'm sure his family will love reading that.

 

[ray66v]

Look, unless the guy ran toward the tree as it fell, (unlikely), the rope was too short.

And the fact that there was an indictment, and that the indictment stipulates that MAINTAINING POSITION UNDER the tree was a required practice, would make them careless at best, stupid at worst.

I really don't have a problem with using a rope and pulling a tree towards you. Its the whole being UNDER the tree and pulling the tree towards you thing thats troubling. This makes me wonder if standing on branches while sawing them off also one of their practices?

Since the indictment indicates safe alternatives were available, something as simple as longer rope could likely have prevented this whole incident.

My opinion is based on what was in the article, not what might have been happening or who, may or may not have been present.

If there is additional information in the future that suggests for example, the guy was wearing a hard hat, perhaps I could be less judgmental.

 

[ray66v]

Nice way to talk about someone who just lost his life. I'm sure his family will love reading that.

I'm sure they will feel better though, seeing you stuck up for them.

I will bet on the possibility, the family of the deceased has called the owner of the company much worse things than dumb since this accident.

Still, I am the bad guy. Perhaps they could indict me for saying the truth.

 

[MikeD74T]

Come on Ray, we're just teasin' you a little.
Everybody knows that lawyers care nothing about truth. Their opinion, which is also what an indictment actually is, is based completely on the side supporting their paycheck. Without disagreement they'd have to actually learn a trade or get elected. Politicians are mostly just bad lawyers.
As for dumb, even real smart people do stupid things & not all live to tell why. MikeD74T

 

[gemini5362]

Come on Ray, we're just teasin' you a little.
Everybody knows that lawyers care nothing about truth. Their opinion, which is also what an indictment actually is, is based completely on the side supporting their paycheck. Without disagreement they'd have to actually learn a trade or get elected. Politicians are mostly just bad lawyers.
As for dumb, even real smart people do stupid things & not all live to tell why. MikeD74T

Pretty derogatory comment about lawyers. I know a couple of them pretty well and I have found that they are the most truthful people I know.

One of the questions I have about reading this post is why would you have to stand in the direction of fall. I have a pulley for my winch one of the purposes of the pulley is if i have to change the direction of the pull. It would seem to me that you could get a pulley with a long rope attached to it. attach that rope in the direction you wanted it to fall. run the rope you are pulling on through the pulley and then pull 90 degrees from the direction of fall. Seems like you would be safer and might get some mechanical advantage from the pulley ?

 

[Treemonkey1000]

About 80% of the tree work that I do has involved ropes and pulling them to get the tree or branch to go where you want it using a straight rope pull. At times we want mechanical advantage and use a vehicle or block and tackle. We will use a pulley and redirect the rope to a safer or out of the drop zone when we need that as well. Typically just having a body or two on a rope is all we need. It isn't rocket science to get out of the way of the falling tree or branch. If you are pulling towards a hill or something where you can't be out of reach happens as well. Like I said in another posting if I am using the homeowner or someone unfamiliar I will tell them before hand what to look out for and which way to go when it starts to fall. Also they need to look out for obstacles in the path. Other branches or holes. Things like that.

 

[MikeD74T]

Gemini, Using a pulley requires an anchor point in the direction of fall. Much of the time the desired direction of fall is a clear spot away from anything substantial enough to be an anchor. Pulleys for change of direction are regularly used when appropriate.

Yes, I painted lawyers with a broad brush. The truth is a strange thing because it's always subject to change. The definition per Webster's is: an idea that is accepted as true, sincerity in utterance,fidelity to a standard. Another definition is: truth is a belief based on facts, and facts are statements that support the truth. This definition is usually followed by the statement -"The world is flat!" So your truth can be whatever you want it to be or are willing to believe. An unpublished but widely known truth in New Hampshire (and I suspect the rest of the country as well) is that the court system, all made up of & run by lawyers, accepts lawyers' fees as acceptable punishment for some crimes. They don't care much whether a defendant pays a huge lawyers fee or a huge fine or splits the two as long as money is spent. When you see drunk drivers kill someone & buy their way out the conviction that's just wrong. The system is perpetuated by putting drunk drivers back on the road. Lawyer's bend the truth by limiting the responses of witnesses to the questions asked. Lawyering is sparring without physical contact. The richest lawyers are the ones that play the game the best. Customers get the representation they can afford, it's the American way. Medicine is similar but doctors take an oath to do no harm, I'm not sure what oath lawyers take.
I probably should have been a lawyer 'cause I'll adjust my truth for the sake of arguement on occasion. If I can't convince you that you're wrong then you may be right, if you change your mind and agree with me I might try to convince you that you're again wrong.
I read a quote from some rock star that went "I've never told a lie, I believe everything I've ever said." There are many truths, some false. MikeD74T

 

[pennwalk]

Last fall my neighbor had a tree company taking down some trees in his yard. They seemed to know what they were doing. At least no one was hurt and nothing fell on the building. They had nice equipment in good condition. I did notice none of the guys had helmets, hearing protection, safety glasses, or chaps. It surprises me how many working people fail to use safety equipment.

Chris

 

[Bird]

Last fall my neighbor had a tree company taking down some trees in his yard. They seemed to know what they were doing. At least no one was hurt and nothing fell on the building. They had nice equipment in good condition. I did notice none of the guys had helmets, hearing protection, safety glasses, or chaps. It surprises me how many working people fail to use safety equipment.

Chris

Same with these guys who did a good, fast, and cheap job of removing an old weeping willow tree for me in Oct. 2005.

 

[gemini5362]

Gemini, Using a pulley requires an anchor point in the direction of fall. Much of the time the desired direction of fall is a clear spot away from anything substantial enough to be an anchor. Pulleys for change of direction are regularly used when appropriate.

Yes, I painted lawyers with a broad brush. The truth is a strange thing because it's always subject to change. The definition per Webster's is: an idea that is accepted as true, sincerity in utterance,fidelity to a standard. Another definition is: truth is a belief based on facts, and facts are statements that support the truth. This definition is usually followed by the statement -"The world is flat!" So your truth can be whatever you want it to be or are willing to believe. An unpublished but widely known truth in New Hampshire (and I suspect the rest of the country as well) is that the court system, all made up of & run by lawyers, accepts lawyers' fees as acceptable punishment for some crimes. They don't care much whether a defendant pays a huge lawyers fee or a huge fine or splits the two as long as money is spent. When you see drunk drivers kill someone & buy their way out the conviction that's just wrong. The system is perpetuated by putting drunk drivers back on the road. Lawyer's bend the truth by limiting the responses of witnesses to the questions asked. Lawyering is sparring without physical contact. The richest lawyers are the ones that play the game the best. Customers get the representation they can afford, it's the American way. Medicine is similar but doctors take an oath to do no harm, I'm not sure what oath lawyers take.
I probably should have been a lawyer 'cause I'll adjust my truth for the sake of arguement on occasion. If I can't convince you that you're wrong then you may be right, if you change your mind and agree with me I might try to convince you that you're again wrong.
I read a quote from some rock star that went "I've never told a lie, I believe everything I've ever said." There are many truths, some false. MikeD74T

Mike I believe you seem to indicate that all lawyers are trial lawyers that is not the case there are a lot of lawyers that never do trials. My personal attorney the times I have been in court or when he had defended one of my sons has told us to absolutely tell the truth. I am not a lawyer but I defend people in arbitration hearings. I always tell the people I am defending to tell the truth. I think a lot of the success in being a lawyer is not to lie but to control how much of the truth is being told. The reason that you see a lot of people that buy there way out of situations is because either A. The district attorney in order to save money or time accepted a plea bargain. B. The police that made the arrest either through ignorance or arrogance did not follow proper procedure and made mistakes. I see management of the people I represent not follow procedure. There is a written procedure for dealing with situations and management feels like they are the managers and they dont have to follow this procedure even though it was something agreed to by their boss several levels above them. When this happens usually the advocate for management just pays us the money we are asking for because that is cheaper than paying an arbitrator their fees and having the arbitrator turn around and pay us the money.