Trees

[Username Taken]

I just bought a Hobby Farm in Michigan. Hooray for me, right? Of course, it needs work. Lots of work.

Plus, it's in the middle of Farm Country. Cool. I love farms and farmers are an interesting breed. I grew up around them, too.

Anyhow, to the West of me are all open fields. 100's of acres. Sometimes they plant soybeans, sometimes corn. And they use Roundup on the fields for both.

I want to plant some trees, as a windbreak, on the border between the wide open fields and my property. The wind whipping through there can be strong and foreboding.

But with the use of roundup, I'm thinking it will kill my new trees.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to what trees (Prefer conifers) are more resistant to roundup than others??

Red Cedar?? Firs?? Pine Tree varieties??

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[old and tired]

Not sure about Michigan but if someone sprays and it drifts off target, fines and possibly lose their pesticide license. Also, if it's too windy, farmers don't want to waste money or chemicals by not hitting the target weeds so they don't spray over a certain wind speed... It might be different up there (like always windy) but that's not what happens in the south.

I'd plant whatever you want and hope you have smart farmers around you.

 

[ultrarunner]

Had a Redwood coming along nicely for about 20 years...

Redwoods often have sucker growth at the base and city was spraying right of way and tree died a slow death...

Tree was not in right of way but several feet inside.

 

[MossRoad]

I just bought a Hobby Farm in Michigan. Hooray for me, right? Of course, it needs work. Lots of work.

Plus, it's in the middle of Farm Country. Cool. I love farms and farmers are an interesting breed. I grew up around them, too.

Anyhow, to the West of me are all open fields. 100's of acres. Sometimes they plant soybeans, sometimes corn. And they use Roundup on the fields for both.

I want to plant some trees, as a windbreak, on the border between the wide open fields and my property. The wind whipping through there can be strong and foreboding.

But with the use of roundup, I'm thinking it will kill my new trees.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to what trees (Prefer conifers) are more resistant to roundup than others??

Red Cedar?? Firs?? Pine Tree varieties??

Any help would be appreciated.

We planted windbreaks of mixed shrubs and fruit trees, then acres of mixed pines and hardwoods right next to farm fields. Never had a problem.

If I were you, and you may already be thinking about this, I'd contact your local county extension agent before you do anything and see what kind of free services they provide.

Here in Indiana, they will come out and do a survey of your property, count the trees, identify the species, the soil types, look for invasives, etc., and write you up a nice report all for free. Then, if you like, they can write up a forestry management plan for all, or different sections of, your property. In that, they can identify species that will do best in your climate and soil types, what types of shrubs and trees to choose for a wind break, give you planting plans for do it yourself or hiring a tree planter.

You may qualify for classified wildlife habitat, classified forest, discounts on trees, planting services, erosion control through tree planting, all kinds of stuff.

But it's important to make the calls first, and find out what's available. If anything, it's nice to get a state forester or biologist out there and walk the land with them. They have a unique eye and can point out a lot of things you're likely to miss.

 

[Username Taken]

Not sure about Michigan but if someone sprays and it drifts off target, fines and possibly lose their pesticide license. Also, if it's too windy, farmers don't want to waste money or chemicals by not hitting the target weeds so they don't spray over a certain wind speed... It might be different up there (like always windy) but that's not what happens in the south.

I'd plant whatever you want and hope you have smart farmers around you.

I'm pretty sure Farmers are immune from lawsuits due to overspray of Roundup.

I know the guy I bought the Farm from grew berries. Strawberries (in pots, above ground, hydroponics) in ground raspberries of all types, and blackberries. No thorns.

And the overspray from the big, huge, giant machines damage all of it that was within 100' of the farmer's field.

This particular farmer owns the land but doesn't work it. He leases it out. Then that farmer contracts the spraying out. Don't matter.

We even went to the trouble of putting a wind sock up so the sprayer could see what direction the wind was coming from (almost always from the west but sometimes not).

Anyhow, I'm not important enough or wealthy enough to take on a Farmer who undoubtedly has Insurance that would fight me to the death. Or for at least 20 years.

They've been doing it forever, they're aware of the problems with wind drift. We even had the Michigan Department of (something) out there and they confirmed the damage was wind drift of roundup.

Went to see two different lawyers and they just werren't interested. Maybe if it was a multi-million dollar.

But I don't think they'd be interested in a lawsuit for my measly trees if they kill them.

I'd just rather avoid the problem. I can't take on multi billion $$ Monsanto or a mulit-billion dollar insurance company.

I just want to plant some trees that will look okay and slow the wind from ripping through there like a freight train.

But thanks for taking the time to care.

 

[Username Taken]

We planted windbreaks of mixed shrubs and fruit trees, then acres of mixed pines and hardwoods right next to farm fields. Never had a problem.

If I were you, and you may already be thinking about this, I'd contact your local county extension agent before you do anything and see what kind of free services they provide.

Here in Indiana, they will come out and do a survey of your property, count the trees, identify the species, the soil types, look for invasives, etc., and write you up a nice report all for free. Then, if you like, they can write up a forestry management plan for all, or different sections of, your property. In that, they can identify species that will do best in your climate and soil types, what types of shrubs and trees to choose for a wind break, give you planting plans for do it yourself or hiring a tree planter.

You may qualify for classified wildlife habitat, classified forest, discounts on trees, planting services, erosion control through tree planting, all kinds of stuff.

But it's important to make the calls first, and find out what's available. If anything, it's nice to get a state forester or biologist out there and walk the land with them. They have a unique eye and can point out a lot of things you're likely to miss.

Thank you. I'm right up the road about 100 miles north. Near Hastings, MI.

I'm gonna take your advice. Got a buddy who's into that kind of stuff. Was taking Ag Class at Michigan State before the pandemic.

 

[hube2]

I'm pretty sure Farmers are immune from lawsuits due to overspray of Roundup.

No, they are not, at least not here. While they can do a lot of things there are laws regarding overspray. But you have to be able to prove the overspray did it. This can be accomplished with a simple picture taken of them spraying when it is too windy and the drift can be seen.

For the most part I like farmers, but there is one in my area that is an extremely bad neighbor. A few years ago he had to pay a hefty fine and damages for some large trees that he killed, basically paid to have new trees put in that matched the ones he killed.

Unfortunately, roundup is not one of the chemicals that requires a license to spray here. Like I said, I like farmers, but I would not mind seeing this one put out of business.

 

[oosik]

I guess it depends upon the "type" of farmer your neighbor is. Do you think he would take kindly to you discussing this situation with him??

Otherwise - one mistaken application and your trees would be history. Whether young or old.

Moss - has a good suggestion. Contact you local county extension agent for advice.

 

[bigtiller]

I too, want to suggest doing what Moss said. I did the same thing in '98 and now I have a 100 x 600 ft. wind break on the north n west side of the house.

It's a federal program that will help you build the proper windbreak for your property. will save you money, time and aggravation

And now is the time to get the process rolling because they may require you to get your trees ordered soon, and planted before the middle of May....that's the way it was for me.

 

[hslogger]

Overspray is tresspass. Being a good neighbor means you don't spray over the line. Chemical drift is an intrusion and just because they have been doing it forever means they need to stop. I have had chemical drift and I won't stand for it. If you suspect it is continuing, document with pen and paper and photos and be prepared to go after them.

 

[m7040]

Have a neighbor that has a nice manicured 5 acre lot bordering up to our farm that did not like our tree planting along one side of his lot and he took it upon himself to go spray roundup several feet into our property along the fence line. Called the county and got them involved to survey the issue and together with the Maryland Department Of The Environment they visited with him and since then we have had no more problems with that neighbor. Not sure what they did but talking to the neighbor after that he was all over himself telling me that he would never do that again.

 

[John_Mc]

What I haven't seen suggested here yet is starting with a friendly talk with the farmer neighbor. They may be willing to work with you on this. Why start out looking for a battle? Save that for if they are completely uncooperative.

 

[Username Taken]

What I haven't seen suggested here yet is starting with a friendly talk with the farmer neighbor. They may be willing to work with you on this. Why start out looking for a battle? Save that for if they are completely uncooperative.

Huh?? There was nothing in my post about anything like that. The whole point of this is to avoid conflict.

Besides, like I said, the property owner doesn't do the Farming, he leases his property out. And he seems like a nice guy.

Not a bad gig when you have a thousand acres you can lease it out for $150 a year, more or less, per acre.

Then, the lessee almost certainly contracts to someone else to do the spraying. So the property owner is 2 steps removed from the process. Not counting the the kid that operates the machine. And it's a big one.

I said from the start, I don't want the headache of getting confrontational with -- Anybody. I just wondered if anybody has any experience with what trees seem to resist Roundup wind drift. My trees will be smack-dab on the border. So that big, huge John Deere sprayer will pass right by them. I'm sure the sprayer-guy doesn't want to damage my trees and, even more important, doesn't want to waste the spray. But you know what they say..... Stuff happens.

I want a wind break between 200 and 500 feet long. That will take a lot of trees a lot of money and a lot of work. And I don't want to do it more than once.

 

[Cat385B]

Hybrid willows or poplars in areas with moisture. Scotch pines in drier areas.
All pines are a bit more resistant to overspray than a leaf tree.
Hemlock and arborvitae can be planted close to a line, the others above will have to be 20’ back.

 

[John_Mc]

What I haven't seen suggested here yet is starting with a friendly talk with the farmer neighbor. They may be willing to work with you on this. Why start out looking for a battle? Save that for if they are completely uncooperative.

Huh?? There was nothing in my post about anything like that. The whole point of this is to avoid conflict.

Besides, like I said, the property owner doesn't do the Farming, he leases his property out. And he seems like a nice guy.

I was not suggesting that you were making that jump. It's just that many of the responses jumped right to a confrontational approach. In this case, I'd start with the landowner, and ask for their suggestions on approaching the farmer.

I'm not 100% familiar with the laws regarding application, I do know they vary from state to state. However, I'd be inclined to doubt the claim made earlier in this thread that farmers are not responsible for damage they do when spraying. I'm betting that repeated violations could cause them to lose their applicators license.

Then, the lessee almost certainly contracts to someone else to do the spraying. So the property owner is 2 steps removed from the process. Not counting the the kid that operates the machine.

I grew up on a farm in Ohio, and have lived in an agricultural area here in VT for the past 20 years. The farmers I'm acquainted with all did their own spraying. Though that may have hove something to do with the size of the farm. In both of those states, the "kid that operates the machine" would need to have a commercial herbicide applicator's license to apply it legally.

 

[bigtiller]

I said from the start, I don't want the headache of getting confrontational with -- Anybody. I just wondered if anybody has any experience with what trees seem to resist Roundup wind drift. My trees will be smack-dab on the border. So that big, huge John Deere sprayer will pass right by them. I'm sure the sprayer-guy doesn't want to damage my trees and, even more important, doesn't want to waste the spray. But you know what they say..... Stuff happens.

I want a wind break between 200 and 500 feet long. That will take a lot of trees a lot of money and a lot of work. And I don't want to do it more than once.

My trees will be smack-dab on the border.

Try not to do that, it's not a good way to be neighborly. In a few years the trees will be encroaching on your neighbor. Try to plant at a minimum of 25 ft. away from the property line.

If you plant a conifer like Norway Spruce on the outside row, even at 25 ft., in 20 years they could be close enough to the property line that it could be difficult to maintain them without trespassing.

 

[MossRoad]

....
I want a wind break between 200 and 500 feet long. That will take a lot of trees a lot of money and a lot of work. And I don't want to do it more than once.

Not as many trees, not as much money, and not as much work as you may think. A 500' long row of trees planted 10' apart is only 50 trees.
Three rows staggered is only 150 trees.
We did a row of shrubs of various species, a row of fruiting trees like crab apples, and two staggered rows of pines for our outer border/windbreak.
We had a forester plant them, along with 2150 trees on 4 acres. Half pines, half mixed hardwoods. Total cost with side spraying after 75% of cost paid by govt program was $265. So about $1060 before the rebate. This was, of course, around 1989 and prices have increased I'm sure. It took them about 4 hours to plant everything.

Nothing was ever lost to overspray from the corn/bean field next to us over the next 10 years. Then that neighbor stopped leasing it out for farming and he planted trees and food plots.

 

[MossRoad]

Here's a link to a nursery in Holland, MI.
2 year old white pines in the 18"-30" range are only $304 for 100 trees, for example.

Alpha Nurseries, Inc.

www.alphanurseries.com

Here's a directory of Michigan tree nurseries for you perusal. Start looking at difference species of trees and shrubs just to get an idea of costs. All things said, trees are dirt cheap in bulk.

https://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/DirectoryOfMichiganSeedlingNurseries-IC4175_258828_7.pdf

But as mentioned before, be sure to consult with a state forester/biologist for advice for your specific location, needs and recommendations.

 

[turnkey4099]

Hybrid willows or poplars in areas with moisture. Scotch pines in drier areas.
All pines are a bit more resistant to overspray than a leaf tree.
Hemlock and arborvitae can be planted close to a line, the others above will have to be 20’ back.

I see a couple willow groves that have been badly damaged by spray. I doubt any deciduous tree would be resistant to RU.

 

[Jstpssng]

Poplar in particular does not like herbicides. Red/soft maple on the other hand is pretty stubborn about spray, as anybody who's done R/W spraying will attest. It will die, but generally there is a different chemical to make that happen.

I would first look into the laws in your state. I once got sprayed by the guy in the blueberry field adjacent to my line. I was not happy but didn't say anything to him, as he's a hard working guy and I gave him the benefit of the doubt. (He was parked on the road at the edge of the block, sending spray 180 feet to the far side of the field.) The next crop rotation he had a different sprayer which allowed more control... he was just starting out and it took a while to get situated properly.