Trespassing

[Egon]

Would the rights of government to appropriate land be factored into this survey.

 

[WayneB]

In northern NH there is a small percentage of posted land, but because it is often posted every 50' it looks like a lot more. Also in NH land is open to some public uses by law unless otherwise posted. "Flatlander's"( south of NH mountains) from many areas think their lawn is sacred but the bigger properties of others should be open to access. When they come north they bring the signs with them. MikeD74T

MIKE it is not us southern NH boys doing that!

I think it is a bit further south. At least that is what I see around here. We / I do not post my land, and there are times I have consider it, just to keep certain trespassers out. We have granted snowmobilers a train across the land, but not off road vehicles. Just last week there was a jeep running down the trail and came right up to our house. I immediately went out and told him he was not welcome and to stay off from the trail. He told me to F off and left. I wrote down his plate number and reported him to the local police. Nothing will happen to him, as I am only a landowner.

Around here there is a bunch of land that is posted and people are putting out signs against hunting, fishing and everything else one would do, and it is always because someone had a beer party and left a mess or built fires. It goes on and on. Around here the biggest concern I have is the trucks / off road vehicles digging up the trails.

 

[ToadHill]

In New York State the distance between posted signs has to be less than 600 ft. I only started posting my land 3 years ago after I found all kine of food wrappers, and empty cans along the trails that spring. If people have the pockets to take the stuff into the woods you'd think they have the pockets to take it out.
I went with signs that allow access with written permission only.

 

[1948berg]

Gunnar,

WHY can't you deny access to your own property? If you fenced it would you then be able to deny access? Can you explain a little more about your laws?

There are old laws in Scandinavia, securing the public the right to walk about in the forest, anywhere you like, there is no such thing as a private forest, in the sense that you can denie the public access. The public right goes for picking berries and mushrooms as well, not hunting and fishing. Cultivated fields are not included in this, exept when it is covered with snow, you can ski anywhere you like. The exeption is that you shall stay clear of the private "room" around where people live. You can also put up a tent anywhere you like , until 3 days at the same spot, without the landowners permission.
BUT - there is alvays a BUT, motorized traffic is probhabited in woods and outlying fields, exept for professional use, logging, service to cabins and so on. The recreational use of ATVs and snowmobiles is forbidden. This includes 4x4 and tracked vehicles. But many people finds a way around this "problem"
Most of the land in Norway is privately owmed.

 

[Jimbrown]

I did not read much of it but the study deals with a lot more than tresspassing. Our laws are pretty good in that area. The problem lies in three areas.
1. Courts that tend favor the perceived poorer person.
2. The right of eminent domain i.e. the government can take your land at any time it wants.
3. Tax laws that are so sever that it is difficult to keep valuable property because they tax you until you can not afford it. Plus the ridiculous inheritance tax.

 

[1948berg]

I did not read much of it but the study deals with a lot more than tresspassing. Our laws are pretty good in that area. The problem lies in three areas.
1. Courts that tend favor the perceived poorer person.
2. The right of eminent domain i.e. the government can take your land at any time it wants.
3. Tax laws that are so sever that it is difficult to keep valuable property because they tax you until you can not afford it. Plus the ridiculous inheritance tax.

Can you explain and exemplifie some, please.

 

[cp1969]

None of us actually own land - we only rent it from the government with payments of taxes. If you don't believe this, just try not paying your rent for a couple years. This gives many people the idea that if the government owns the land, and the government is "of-the-people, by-the-people, for-the-people", then it follows logically that many feel they can use anything of the "government's" for themselves.

Many people have had hardship induced by rent (tax) manipulation by government in attempts at social engineering. There have also been significant "property taking" cases within the US in the past twenty years using the theory of "eminent domain", which is the theory that if it is for the common good your property may be seized. This has gone so far that individual's private property has been seized, only to be given to private developers so projects that increase the the government's tax revenues can be built. Significant backlash has occured in these instances, and some cases have gained nationwide attention. These cases were so egregious that there does seem to be movement towards restriction of these "eminent domain" theories.

All of the above, combined with a declining amount of personal responsiblity and courtesy in the USA leads to problems. We're not perfect, but we don't want to hear about it from outsiders.

This is a topic dear to my heart.

There should be no such thing as real estate taxes. Period.

Our so-called God-given rights --life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness--necessitate another unnamed priviledge (which must be earned)--a place to do the above three, without fear of getting kicked off of it, provided you have paid for it.

As long as there are real estate taxes, you don't own squat. You are a renter from the state; no different than a renter from a slum lord. Miss a rent payment--you're gone.

Every man (meaning both men and women) should be able to have a place where he can go, a sanctuary if you will, where when EVERYTHING goes wrong, he can retreat to and not have to worry about getting kicked off.

 

[DocHeb]

Google:

"Poletown Plant Detroit General Motors"

"New London Connecticut Eminent Domain"

"Long Branch New Jersey Eminent Domain"

 

[shvl73]

"Flatlander's"( south of NH mountains) from many areas think their lawn is sacred but the bigger properties of others should be open to access. When they come north they bring the signs with them. MikeD74T

For me, its more about people having some degree of respect for what I pay taxes on and what I work for during the week. I really desire a degree of privacy and for someone to feel that "they don't need to work hard to have some property, they'll just use mine", really bothers me. I don't want to be relaxing on the weekend and see, just outside my front window, three people with rifles that I don't know. Is there really any conscious thought going through there tiny brains?! Do I know their competency with a firearm? Do I know their frame of mind? How can I trust them, when I don't know them and they are already showing a lack of common sense?
My front lawn is sacred, my whole property is sacred and the privacy and peace of mind that I derive from it and have worked hard to achieve, all of that is sacred. Why should anyone who desires some privacy, peace and quiet, some relief from their work week, feel like they are in the wrong for requesting that others respect what they pay substantial sums of money for?
I can't think of another country that holds the opportunity and promise for anyone willing to work hard, such as this one does. If you are an avid outdoor enthusiast, work hard and you'll be able to have a place to enjoy. If you are an acquaintance of mine, you're welcome to come by my place. If you are a stranger, do not assume.

 

[MikeD74T]

I may have struck some NH nerves with my "flatlander" moniker. Please take no offense, north of the notches even Lincoln & North Conway residents are flatlanders.
My only point - many that own a partial acre think that anything bigger is free access to them. In fact NH law agrees with the concept including access to their partial acre. Landowners may agree to allow access, ask visitors to leave for any reason, or post the land against specific or all access. No one is a trespasser until they access a property after being given indication that they are not welcome, & that includes your front lawn. I don't post my 2 acres in Hampton Falls (my neighbors do theirs ) nor my 38 acres in Lancaster. When intruders appear I usually engage in conversation & make clear my expectations of their visit. At least they know I know who they are. I've had to ask some to leave because they were stupid, like allowing access to hunt & they started shooting within 50' of the house in the first minute. NH law also disallows shooting within 300' of a residence.
I feel it's been good for me not to post. I have a few regular users (locals) of my vacation property that keep an eye on it. I've had no vandalism or trash problems in 9 years. Some of my posted neighbors have not fared as well. I did have a friends tires slashed in my driveway by NH flatlanders that he had reported to Fish & Game the year before for illegally killing and abandoning a doe in buck season. It was a specific retaliation by a specific group. There is now a court order directing their future non-access.
As a kid I worked on a neighboring farm. When the owner spotted someone driving thru his hay to fish in the river he'd go ask if they had landowner permission. If they said they did, which was a lie or they were lost, their reaction to his declaration of ownership determined whether they stayed or were told to leave. The intruder's apology usually resulted in a parking recommendation & permisson to come back anytime, an arguement resulted in "go away & never come back!" I thought it a nice approach. MikeD74T