Loader True Third Function- factory or do it myself

[paulwestski]

Question for JJ

Where can I find a solenoid valve sub plate with pressure relief, power beyond and tank ports?
Everything that I've looked at only have four ports P-T-A-B
Or is ther another way to skin this cat?

They must make them Kubota uses one on the factory kit.

The factory third function kits are on back order so I may very well have to source the parts to install the third function myself.

Thanks
Paul

 

[J_J]

Question for JJ

Where can I find a solenoid valve sub plate with pressure relief, power beyond and tank ports?
Everything that I've looked at only have four ports P-T-A-B
Or is ther another way to skin this cat?

They must make them Kubota uses one on the factory kit.

The factory third function kits are on back order so I may very well have to source the parts to install the third function myself.

Thanks
Paul

A hyd subplate outlets are PB capable.

There is always an IN port and OUT port.

As far as a relief, there are external relief that can be added to any circuit.

Here are a few external relief valves, some single and some double.

Surplus Center

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=L721s5s0Up1OR0Y4_D9ksg&bvm=bv.47534661,d.dmQ

http://baileynet.com/hydraulics/sol...age=ProductDetails&line=SVMV&baileyno=223-138

 

[paulwestski]

JJ

So if I tie the 3rd function in after the loader valve that has a relief, the third function valve "T" port would be power beyond, and I don't need to have a tank dump from the 3rd function because the third function has no relief?

 

[J_J]

All the ports on a subplate are capable of about 5000 psi.

You can insert the 3ed function valve anywhere after the FEL valve, but before the 3pt valve.

The 3ed function T port can go to tank if that is your only valve or last valve in the hyd circuit.

Any action you do with the 3ed function, will be reflected in the FEL valve relief.

You can also insert a relief valve anywhere in the hyd circuit for protection of a cyl or motor, etc..

 

[paulwestski]

All the ports on a subplate are capable of about 5000 psi.

You can insert the 3ed function valve anywhere after the FEL valve, but before the 3pt valve.

The 3ed function T port can go to tank if that is your only valve or last valve in the hyd circuit.

Any action you do with the 3ed function, will be reflected in the FEL valve relief.

You can also insert a relief valve anywhere in the hyd circuit for protection of a cyl or motor, etc..

Thanks for you expertise JJ

 

[avc8130]

I'm with the OP. For the money, I would just buy the OEM kit. The integration is PERFECT and hard lines are employed along the loader. For the same money as an aftermarket setup I just don't see any reason to go with the aftermarket setup.

That being said...one of these days I'm going to do my own from Surplus Center for ~1/2 price.

ac

 

[jim_wilson]

The Kubota L4240 that i have on order should be ready for delivery in a few weeks.

I'm on the fence whether to source the parts myself for the third function or just order the Kubota kit. I'm very comfortable installing either myself. I added four remotes to my L3800. Designed and fabricated the valve and quick connect mounting bracket locations and all plumbing routing.

We all say wow $900 for third function....I could probably do that for much less myself.

The kubota kit is only about $400 more than sourcing all of the parts myself.

I've looked at all of the Kubota parts diagrams and they use a ton of hard lines, between the pump and valve, valve to valve, along the loader arm, and have all of the brackets fabbed and painted, quick connects dust covers, complete new loader control lever with joystick, switches, relays, wiring, connectors, nuts, bolts, screws etc. If you look at the quantity of parts it's not really overpriced and makes for a very clean install.

The Kubota kit is a "true third function" not just a diverter valve. Which of course means curl, lift and grapple can all work at the same time......and yes I currently, at times use all three at the same time. If the grapple was controlled by a rocker switch on the loader control I can see opportunities to use it even more often.

The only two downsides of the factory kit is the additional cost and not being able to spend quality fab time in the shop building it.
Now if I can get my sales guy to give me a good price on the kit!

Would anyone with the factory third function please reply with their likes and dislikes of the factory setup????
Pictures of the mounting location of the valve would be nice also.
Anyone have the LA854 loader installation instructions ?
I think that they cover the third function install.....would be nice to get a scanned copy PLEASE...

I'd very interested to know where you're finding all of the parts diagrams for this. I'm trying to figure out exactly how to do the same thing on my B3200 ( add a true third function, instead of just a diverter) - and as part of the investigation I'd like to see how it's done on the L4240

 

[jim_wilson]

My OEM 3rd function is simply a solenoid operated hydraulic valve that is plumbed using the PB from the loader valve assembly. In my opinion it's a true remote but maybe someone with more hydraulic savvy than I can answer that for sure.

It's definitely not a diverter valve setup which I wasn't interested in having. When shopping for my tractor I looked at a NH T4050. One thing I didn't like was that they use a diverter valve to operate their 3rd function thru the bucket tip circuit.

Where does the PB go on your tractor "normally"? On mine it would go either to the backhoe - or directly to the 3pt.

From your description it sounds like the solenoid valve might have been installed in the line that normally goes to the 3pt - so now when you want to use the 3rd function you're "diverting" the fluid that would be going there - to the 3rd function instead.

If so- it sounds like you've the same type of setup on your tractor I was thinking of installing on mine - if possible would you be able to get any info off of the valve that solenoid valve you're talking about?

 

[jim_wilson]

Knowing my hyrdaulic knowledge is lacking, I'll tackle these questions.

In my case, first function is loader boom lift, second function is bucket curl. Then the PB of the loader valve is plumbed to the IN of the 3rd function valve. So as JJ described earlier, if I am not using 100% of the capacity of my tractor's system in the first two functions, there is flow leftover to cause action in the 3rd function. When I reach 100% flow capacity of the tractor, all flow beyond stops.

Hmmmm,,, is it an extra circuit and self protected?? I'm gonna guess no on extra circuit, it's simply a continuation of the circuit supplying flow to my loader valve because it comes off the PB. Same with my rear remotes and 3pt, they too are continuations of the original circuit. With that I'd say my tractor only has one circuit. As for self protected,,, I'm gonna guess that it is not.

As for fourth function and so on down the line. Yes. My tractor starts at the loader valve supplying boom lift and curl, then 3rd function, then rear remotes, then 3pt lift.

How'd I do JJ??

Guess I should have kept reading before posting my previous reply.

How do you actuate that solenoid valve you were talking about to get the 3rd function working?

 

[jim_wilson]

Don't know where the 3ed function came from or a definition for for the term.

Although open center hyd circuits have all valves in series, they should always have a relief valve before any other hyd component after the pump.

In a closed center hyd system, there is usually a single relief valve close by the pump, and the other hyd valve do not need a relief valve.

If the 3ed function is first in line from the pump, I would say that it is not protected.

If it comes off the hyd blk, there is usually a relief valve on the hyd block.

I think of a a 3ed function as an extra circuit that can be used for just about anything, grapple, 4-1 bucket. etc.

3ed function valves are also PB capable if the flow is available. .

Sometimes the 3ed function may not have full pump flow, due to other valves/cyl using the hyd fluid.

A 3ed function can be used independently of any other hyd circuit as long as there is an external relief valve before the 3ed function.

I did find this excerpt for a CAT brochure.

Auxiliary Hydraulics
Auxiliary hydraulics provide
unparalleled versatility allowing you to
select the configuration that best suits
your application. Third function only
or packaged with fourth enables the use
of almost all work tools. Fifth and sixth
function hydraulics are also available
for responsive independent positioning
of work tools with multiple hydraulic
cylinders such as snow plows with
hydraulically movable snow wings

My guess is that the term "third function" comes from people using those diverter valves on FELs - and using the flow from one of the other functions (curl or lift) thru a diverter to add a 3rd "function" - like operating a grapple.

As people are apt to do - that just got absorbed and generalized into the language as "third function valve" - which a lot of people now don't even know what it means.

I work in high tech - it's the process I like to call "acronimization" - where everything is reduced to 3 letters - and pretty soon nobody even understands what those three letters stand for - so over time the real knowledge is lost to the point where nobody even really knows what they're talking anymore.

 

[J_J]

A new handle on the joystick with a water proof momentary switch on it.

 

[jim_wilson]

A new handle on the joystick with a water proof momentary switch on it.

As I read thru the thread I saw the parts diagram he posted and it shows that. I should have read a little further on before posting questions.

 

[paulwestski]

All the ports on a subplate are capable of about 5000 psi.

You can insert the 3ed function valve anywhere after the FEL valve, but before the 3pt valve.

The 3ed function T port can go to tank if that is your only valve or last valve in the hyd circuit.

Any action you do with the 3ed function, will be reflected in the FEL valve relief.

You can also insert a relief valve anywhere in the hyd circuit for protection of a cyl or motor, etc..

JJ
To clarify....

"The 3ed function T port can go to tank if that is your only valve or last valve in the hyd circuit."

In my build the 3rd function would be before the three point connection.
So the "T" port from the third function sub plate would feed the three point valve???
Power beyond to the three point valve?

Thanks again for all of your patience answered everyone's questions. It's greatly appreciated!!!

 

[paulwestski]

I'm with the OP. For the money, I would just buy the OEM kit. The integration is PERFECT and hard lines are employed along the loader. For the same money as an aftermarket setup I just don't see any reason to go with the aftermarket setup.

That being said...one of these days I'm going to do my own from Surplus Center for ~1/2 price.

ac

I wish I could go that route but the factory kits are on a three week back order $900.00 installed.
I can do it myself for $370.00 in parts......granted that I have new leftover parts from other builds....bulkhead fittings, quick connects, SAE/ORB, JIC fittings, hose covering etc.

 

[paulwestski]

I'd very interested to know where you're finding all of the parts diagrams for this. I'm trying to figure out exactly how to do the same thing on my B3200 ( add a true third function, instead of just a diverter) - and as part of the investigation I'd like to see how it's done on the L4240

The B3200 should be fairly easy.
The L4240 hydraulic plumbing is similar to the B series.
For parts diagrams just go to the Kubota website and search parts diagrams.
Do you have a factory backhoe?

 

[paulwestski]

Where does the PB go on your tractor "normally"? On mine it would go either to the backhoe - or directly to the 3pt.

From your description it sounds like the solenoid valve might have been installed in the line that normally goes to the 3pt - so now when you want to use the 3rd function you're "diverting" the fluid that would be going there - to the 3rd function instead.

If so- it sounds like you've the same type of setup on your tractor I was thinking of installing on mine - if possible would you be able to get any info off of the valve that solenoid valve you're talking about?

The valve is at Surplus center

http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=9-6136&catname=hydraulic

You also would need the sub plate for the valve and the wiring connectors

 

[paulwestski]

JJ
To clarify....

"The 3ed function T port can go to tank if that is your only valve or last valve in the hyd circuit."

In my build the 3rd function would be before the three point connection.
So the "T" port from the third function sub plate would feed the three point valve???
Power beyond to the three point valve?

Thanks again for all of your patience answered everyone's questions. It's greatly appreciated!!!

JJ
Here's a diagram of the sub plate.
I added the comment boxes indicating my understanding how the flow of the valve should be.
Is my interpretation correct????????

Thanks for all of your wonderful advice Sir.

 

[paulwestski]

Well I finally got it all installed and it is a much cleaner installation than the factory setup.

I found some space underneath the seat for the solenoid valve.
Just needed to fabricate a mounting plate for the valve.
Used a D05 open center 12v solenoid valve from Ebay.
I did locate a space saver sub-plate that is only 1.25" thick D05 pattern SAE 8 connections.

I tapped into the backhoe loop after the backhoe.

I sourced the control handle from John Deere, see this post

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-need-measurement-l4240-loader-control-2.html

I cut the existing loader control handle shaft down to a more comfortable height below the offset. This also allows additional room to exit the right side of the open station.

I ran a high amperage circuit back to the left hand side of the seat. There is plenty of room to install relays there underneath the range shift console. This will also provide power for my ROPs mounted work lights.

Picked up an ignition on hot from the right hand behind the seat area. There are three connectors there for that use.

NOTE: I did install diodes on the relays to protect the low amperage switch in the control handle. There also is a lighted arming switch at the base of the loader control handle shaft mounted on the right side console.

Hose routing is along the backhoe sub frame to the front loader quick disconnect plate.
I fabricated a four hole quick disconnect plate that bolts to the factory front loader quick disconnect plate.
The hoses then run along the front loader arms using hydraulic hose clamps bolted to the provided factory loader arm mounting locations.
The slick part is where the hoses terminate at the front loader crossover tube. I borrowed one of ETAs ideas and mounted the same hose tending spring they use on their grapples.
All hoses have hose protection installed wherever possible.

Go here to view photos

https://www.flickr.com/photos/125678055@N06/sets/72157645223961616/

 

[case580c]

Kubota Factory 3rd function
I have a kubota 3rd function valve & connections on my M5140. The dealer installed it on the bare used tractor at the same time he installed the kubota Loader (LA1153) on it. I am installing a grapple next week and I want to plumb it so when I push the kubota loader control Joystick TOP Button it will open the grapple lids and the LOWER Button would close the grapple lids. Does anyone know if there is a standard or uniform way they install the system so the coupling mounted on the loader frame bulkhead are mounted the same on all installations? Example the top coupling in my case it is the Male coupling (see picture I have included) would be the pressurized line when I press the Top Button. I know if I just install the the hoses and couplings to my grapple I have a 50% chance of being right. I am just trying not have to reinstall my couplings and get hyd fluid all over the place. Or can I just reverse a electrical plug at the Joystick area?

I guess what I am trying to ask is here a standard or uniform way the Kubota Factory 3rd Function Install is installed? Thanks in advance
*Attached Thumbnails**

 

[paulwestski]

Kubota Factory 3rd function
I have a kubota 3rd function valve & connections on my M5140. The dealer installed it on the bare used tractor at the same time he installed the kubota Loader (LA1153) on it. I am installing a grapple next week and I want to plumb it so when I push the kubota loader control Joystick TOP Button it will open the grapple lids and the LOWER Button would close the grapple lids. Does anyone know if there is a standard or uniform way they install the system so the coupling mounted on the loader frame bulkhead are mounted the same on all installations? Example the top coupling in my case it is the Male coupling (see picture I have included) would be the pressurized line when I press the Top Button. I know if I just install the the hoses and couplings to my grapple I have a 50% chance of being right. I am just trying not have to reinstall my couplings and get hyd fluid all over the place. Or can I just reverse a electrical plug at the Joystick area?

I guess what I am trying to ask is here a standard or uniform way the Kubota Factory 3rd Function Install is installed? Thanks in advance
*Attached Thumbnails**

Your won't lose that much fluid swapping out the fittings.
Just do it over a bucket.