Turbo Project ( A Satoh Beaver with teeth)
- Thread starter ripplefct
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Renze
Elite Member
Gee, do they sell those crappy Smarts in the USA as well ??
Lots of people complain that the engines are done within 40.000 km, because they are designed cheap, just for city traffic.. I didnt think anyone in the USA would buy one... at least i wouldnt..
Lots of people complain that the engines are done within 40.000 km, because they are designed cheap, just for city traffic.. I didnt think anyone in the USA would buy one... at least i wouldnt..
xlr82v2
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2004
- Messages
- 703
- Location
- Southwestern Illinois
- Tractor
- 2007 Mahindra 3525, 1952 Ford 8N
I'm just impressed that the turbo will spool up at all with a 2 cyl engine... the dead time between exhaust pulses, it seems, would let the turbo spool down, and as such, you'd never get it really "spooled up". But this seems not to be the case! I'd venture to guess that turbine/compressor size is especially critical to the 2 cylinder diesel! And, it sounds like you've got it pretty close to right with your machine!
As far as wastegates, all the turbocharged diesel engines that I've ever had any experience with, except for my VW Golf TDI, did not have wastegates at all. The turbo was matched to the engine, so that with the fueling level and RPM range available, the turbo could not overboost the engine under normal circumstances. Thus, no need for a wastegate. And, my TDI does not have a wastegate either... instead, it has variable vanes in the turbine housing that change the angle at which the exhaust gases are introduced to the turbine... but the full flow of exhaust still goes through the turbine, and the full flow of air coming through the compressor goes to the engine. The only reason for this being required is that there is no governor on the VW engine... and at the 4400rpm redline at full throttle, that's quite a bit of flow through that little turbine! Gotta tone it down a little, I guess
with your machine!As far as wastegates, all the turbocharged diesel engines that I've ever had any experience with, except for my VW Golf TDI, did not have wastegates at all. The turbo was matched to the engine, so that with the fueling level and RPM range available, the turbo could not overboost the engine under normal circumstances. Thus, no need for a wastegate. And, my TDI does not have a wastegate either... instead, it has variable vanes in the turbine housing that change the angle at which the exhaust gases are introduced to the turbine... but the full flow of exhaust still goes through the turbine, and the full flow of air coming through the compressor goes to the engine. The only reason for this being required is that there is no governor on the VW engine... and at the 4400rpm redline at full throttle, that's quite a bit of flow through that little turbine! Gotta tone it down a little, I guess
Renze
Elite Member
Waste gate is standard on most European light commercial Diesels, unless if they have variable turbine geometry.
If you look at Garrett turbo website, 95% of the turbos do have a waste gate.
You can adjust turbo size to the engine to get performance without overboost, but you cant get any real torque backup without a turbo designed with a waste gate, or variable geometry.
If you look at Garrett turbo website, 95% of the turbos do have a waste gate.
You can adjust turbo size to the engine to get performance without overboost, but you cant get any real torque backup without a turbo designed with a waste gate, or variable geometry.
xlr82v2
Platinum Member
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2004
- Messages
- 703
- Location
- Southwestern Illinois
- Tractor
- 2007 Mahindra 3525, 1952 Ford 8N
Try to explain that to Caterpillar, Cummins, John Deere, International Harvester, Detroit, Perkins, Deutz, Kubota, et.al...Renze said:
Well all i can see is that this motor dosn't need a wastegate because it wont boost over 8 psi. Im sure if I bumped up the fuel a bit the I could get the compression higher and maybe make 10 psi. But I dont want to kill the motor so I'll let it be. I have got more power than the tractor was made to have. I have just recently seen the smart cars coming on the market here.. they have had emmissions problems and are just now making it to the US. All of these turbo's are coming from the UK. As far as spool up of the turbo.... It's on it right now. The rpms come up as quick as i pull the throttle... Well almost. There is a slight amount of lag... but not much. Im pretty happy with it. Will be much happier when the intercooler gets here.
Thanks for all your comments. There great.
Rip.
Thanks for all your comments. There great.
Rip.
rock2610D
Silver Member
Turbos and diesels??? Fuel and air??? It is my belief that newer diesels have wastegates because of computer controlled injecting of fuel. Larger turbos are needed to produce boost as computer inputs fuel.
However on my tractor I have a injection pump and injectors that will only put out X amount of fuel no matter what. So the turbo will spool only as much as the energy supplied (IE FUEL). Once all the fuel is used no more power is avaiable to spin turbo.
There is a point of no return for a pump injected diesel. That point is when there is no more fuel to mix with the O2 and all that happens is higher pressures and that hurts engine components.
It is possible that 8psi is a perfect match to burn all the fuel. Alot of things come into play. Altitude, geometry of cylinder head, valves, etc.
The John Deere 1050 has IHI turbo on it that is spec'ed at 4.9 psi of boost at full throttle and full load. Figure that is a NON-wastegated turbo and it should supprise you that it can only produce 5psi!!
Put that tractor in the mountains and it may not even be able to produce 4.9 psi. I figure that since I am at 8000 feet and my turbo produces 8 to 10 psi its PERFECT. That equals about 4 ot 6 psi at sea level.
I belive that ripplefct has same situation and his 8 psi is = to 4 psi at sea level. Perfect to bring tractor back to factory specs!!
However on my tractor I have a injection pump and injectors that will only put out X amount of fuel no matter what. So the turbo will spool only as much as the energy supplied (IE FUEL). Once all the fuel is used no more power is avaiable to spin turbo.
There is a point of no return for a pump injected diesel. That point is when there is no more fuel to mix with the O2 and all that happens is higher pressures and that hurts engine components.
It is possible that 8psi is a perfect match to burn all the fuel. Alot of things come into play. Altitude, geometry of cylinder head, valves, etc.
The John Deere 1050 has IHI turbo on it that is spec'ed at 4.9 psi of boost at full throttle and full load. Figure that is a NON-wastegated turbo and it should supprise you that it can only produce 5psi!!
Put that tractor in the mountains and it may not even be able to produce 4.9 psi. I figure that since I am at 8000 feet and my turbo produces 8 to 10 psi its PERFECT. That equals about 4 ot 6 psi at sea level.
I belive that ripplefct has same situation and his 8 psi is = to 4 psi at sea level. Perfect to bring tractor back to factory specs!!
Renze
Elite Member
xlr82v2 said:Try to explain that to Caterpillar, Cummins, John Deere, International Harvester, Detroit, Perkins, Deutz, Kubota, et.al...
At least the European 3 i've been around (Deutz, JD and Perkins) use waste gates on their models with intercooling.
My previous car, a Volvo 440 1.9 IDI turbo diesel had a waste gate and my current 850 TDI has it too. Of the Volkswagen Crafter and Mercedes Sprinters we convert to 5th wheel tractors at the company i work, all of them have waste gates and the top of the line models have VNT turbos.
On European Diesel automobiles, waste gates were common since the 90's.
I really think that wastegates are there for higher reving engines. Well even on the higher reveing 2 stroke diesels, there turbo's are not wastegated. But in all the construction equipment and farm equipment that I've ever seen a turbo on, have not been wastegated. They are made to run at a constant RPM. Not like a car or truck that you are constantly accelerating and letting off. Also a turbo with a wastegate is only designed to make a certain amount of boost. Therefore when the load is more than the trubo and the engine are designed to take is exceded, the wastegate is employeed. Does this all make sence???
Rip
Rip
rock2610D
Silver Member
ripplefct, I believe you are on the mark. My ford powerstroke has a wastegate (COMPUTER CONTROLLED) and I see 5 psi of boost on it at 1500 rpm. Its gotten as high as 24 psi pulling a heavy load at 2500 rpm.
Keep in mind my powerstroke redlines at 3200 rpm. To get boost at a low rpm and not overboost at high rpms a waste gate is needed. Keep in mind, that I would bet that all wastegated diesels probably have some sort of computer controlling the fuel and boost.
Keep in mind my powerstroke redlines at 3200 rpm. To get boost at a low rpm and not overboost at high rpms a waste gate is needed. Keep in mind, that I would bet that all wastegated diesels probably have some sort of computer controlling the fuel and boost.