Turning the compost pile.

[MFL]

Good morning,

Now that the horse pasture is established and the horses are home, my wife and I are planning a good size organic garden for next spring. I've been reading a lot about making compost and since I have A LOT of two main ingrediants ( horse manure, and dead leaves), I want to get started on composting now to be ready for the Spring. Here are two questions I haven't seen addressed anywhere else.

1. Can I turn the compost pile with my FEL without compromising the composting process in any way? My wife has been looking at the Compost Tumbler because of the ease of use and the speed of the composting process. I think that if I can turn the pile with my FEL without damaging the compost we can save the money on the tumbler and it would be just as easy.

2. I was thinking about creating a composting pit cut out of a low hill and lined with railroad ties. This way I could dump manure from above and turn the pile from the level side. Will the railroad ties (creasote) damage or adversely effect the compost?

Thanks!

 

[JerryG]

Your mixture needs plenty of air or it won't work right. If you build in into a bank, it won't have the airflow that it needs. As far as using your loader, it will work fine. When you turn the mix, sift it out of the loader. That way you will integrate more air in the mix.

 

[Egon]

Just pile it up and turn it over and keep adding to it. Put a little dirt in it too.

 

[guyrj33]

Don't use railroad ties, you don't want creosote near your food crops.

 

[Doc_Bob]

Will the railroad ties (creasote) damage or adversely effect the compost?

Thanks!

Creosote is "bad". But I can't imagine it would harm your compost. Creosote is very bad to burn.
Bob

 

[Doc_Bob]

Good morning,


1. Can I turn the compost pile with my FEL without compromising the composting process in any way? My wife has been looking at the Compost Tumbler because of the ease of use and the speed of the composting process. I think that if I can turn the pile with my FEL without damaging the compost we can save the money on the tumbler and it would be just as easy.

I turn my piles when they stop "steaming".
Bob

 

[monkeymonk]

Air is key,you can add some pipes to the pile and pull them out when you want to turn.

Could also make a large size bin out of well anchored pallets the slots will give you air and a place to stick pipes or just pile er up and turn with tractor.

tumbler might not be big enough for your application with horse's,

cresote WILL leach into the pile and i wouldn't want that in my garden

 

[Doc_Bob]

ATSDR - ToxFAQs™: Wood Creosote, Coal Tar Creosote, Coal Tar, Coal Tar Pitch, and Coal Tar Pitch Volatiles

Some interesting Creosote facts.............................

What is creosote?Creosote is the name used for a variety of products: wood creosote, coal tar creosote, coal tar, coal tar pitch, and coal tar pitch volatiles. These products are mixtures of many chemicals created by high-temperature treatment of beech and other woods, coal, or from the resin of the creosote bush.
Wood creosote is a colorless to yellowish greasy liquid with a smoky odor and burned taste. Coal tar creosote is a thick, oily liquid that is typically amber to black in color. Coal tar and coal tar pitch are usually thick, black, or dark-brown liquids or semisolids with a smoky odor.
Wood creosote has been used as a disinfectant, a laxative, and a cough treatment, but is rarely used these ways today. Coal tar products are used in medicines to treat skin diseases such as psoriasis, and are also used as animal and bird repellents, insecticides, restricted pesticides, animal dips, and fungicides. Coal tar creosote is the most widely used wood preservative in the United States. Coal tar, coal tar pitch, and coal tar pitch volatiles are used for roofing, road paving, aluminum smelting, and coking.





How might I be exposed to creosote?

• Eating herbal remedies containing the leaves from the creosote bush (chaparral) which are sold as dietary supplements.
• Working in the wood preservative, coke-producing, or asphalt industries.
• Using creosote-treated wood in building fences, bridges, or railroad tracks, or installing telephone poles.
• Living in treated-wood houses that may result in air or skin contact with creosote.
• Drinking water contaminated by a hazardous waste site.

 

[Doc_Bob]

Can you imagine using Creosote as a laxative? Or a cough treatment?

ATSDR - ToxFAQs™: Wood Creosote, Coal Tar Creosote, Coal Tar, Coal Tar Pitch, and Coal Tar Pitch Volatiles

Wood creosote has been used as a disinfectant, a laxative, and a cough treatment, but is rarely used these ways today. Coal tar products are used in medicines to treat skin diseases such as psoriasis, and are also used as animal and bird repellents, insecticides, restricted pesticides, animal dips, and fungicides. Coal tar creosote is the most widely used wood preservative in the United States. Coal tar, coal tar pitch, and coal tar pitch volatiles are used for roofing, road paving, aluminum smelting, and coking.

Bob

 

[MFL]

Thanks to everyone that replied! Lot's of good info! My wife a I have a 15 month old and the I more I read about the commercial food suppy, the more I'm committed to growing at least part of our family's supply as organically as possible. As a former city slicker, I have limited experience in growing anything, but we've been blessed with a little land and I'm going to give it a go. As I dig deeper into all things gardening, I'm sure I'll be asking a LOT more questions.

 

[birdseye]

My wife and I would also like to start a compost pile for our vegetable, lawn and garden waste, but have been concerned about attracting critters. Any thoughts?

 

[monkeymonk]

critters, critters,critters

the fox, the squirelle, the civic cat, the bear,the dog,the deer,the chickens.....and a one time only coon...put a deer fence around it like my MIL with chicken wire at the bottom and still be prepared for some crit action......even when you turn the veggies in the crits still dig them out but can't carry them away..We just have an open pile/no fence and it still produces well...... of course were not to worried about atracting critters except the bears!! But one day we do plan on the fence option.

 

[jeffinsgf]

My wife and I would also like to start a compost pile for our vegetable, lawn and garden waste, but have been concerned about attracting critters. Any thoughts?

We compost our food waste in a Mantis twin tumbler. Yard waste is in a pile. The tumbler is completely critter proof, and has no offensive odor whatsoever. It doesn't break down as fast as the ads say, but it produces a wonderful soil amendment.

 

[Botabill]

No offense meant to anyone but composting is the simplest thing in the world. Dump the stuff on the gound and wait til it heats up and rots. The process can be improved and hurried by adding some missing ingredients, as well as turning and airating the pile. It confuses me to see folks buying compost bins made out of plastic to do the job. For years I've been hauling in horse poop and composting by periodically turning it over with my FEL. Last fall my wifes uncle hauled in a triaxle of horse poop for me. Man am I going to have fun this year flippping 20 tons of steaming poop with the FEL. Hmmm if I had to use a fork it'd be a whole lot less fun. The key to composting is ... generate enough heat though the rotting process to kill the weed seeds and facilitate the breakdown of content. Re: critters that like the pile... unless they are destroying property they really are part of the ecosystem and we need to share our world with others creatures. My Dad used another system to compost which works well on a small scale. He would always have a trench open in the garden where the scraps were dumped. as the trench was filled he would dig the soil over it and composting would take place naturally out of sight by worms under the soil in the garden. Someday I hope to have a garden as fertile as his was.

 

[keegs]

One year I didn't let it cook long enough and got a garden full of oats.

 

[Lloyd_E]

There is a new(not sure how new) school of thought regarding the turning of a manure pile for composting. Essentially you loose a lot of the 'goodness' by turning the pile. Yes it will compost quicker but the new method is to let it 'crust' and compost internally over a longer period - up to a year or more. I am trying this method and have three piles on the go. Our two horses produce about 18 tons a year. One pile is 2 years old and is ready to apply. The other pile is about a year and the new one is 6 months.

lloyd

 

[jimmyj]

Lots of good comments. I think the scale of the pile and what you put in it can make a difference. We used to do a "kitchen scrap" compost but it was very small and didn't need a lot of turning. Now we feed those scraps to the pig and chickens so our compost is manure and waste bedding (hay straw shavings) and is "a lot" bigger. With the new pile I turn it with the FEL and it breaks down into beautiful stuff pretty quickly.

 

[2manyrocks]

I think the former city dweller instinct is to put compost in a neat container, but if you have the space, an open pile is easier to work because you can get at it from all sides.

 

[Mousefield]

For years, before I got the tractor, there was no way I was going to turn over several tons of manure/compost. We just let it sit in wood bins I made, about 10 ft X 8 ft. Had used slabs from the guy band sawing on our place. Started to look shabby and so took them down, had 3, and just piled it. Now I have a 3 sided bin made from cedar logs. We wheel burrow the goat and chicken manure out and dump it. I do turn it over with the loader or backhoe. Wife also puts in kitchen scraps. Every couple of months I put a layer of the older composted dirt/manure on top. Later this summer will make a second bin and cover the 1st with some of the old compost and just leave it till next year. Have also watered the manure pile in the summer to help facilitate composting of it.

 

[Chuck52]

I envy you guys who have lots of material to compost and a loader to turn it with. I'm trying to get 10-12 yards of city compost delivered this week so I can build some more raised beds and add to the existing ones. I pay $12.90/yd plus delivery, but it sure makes good beds when I mix it with my dirt. My soil is pretty good, but on the clayey side. It crusts pretty badly if I don't amend it with something like compost. I can get manure from a neighbor by the pickup load, but I'd have to compost it myself, and after I get my beds finished I'll probably start doing that to maintain them. However, I'm too impatient to wait....and getting a bit long in the tooth, too, so I go this route right now.

A friend built himself a nice compost area with a concrete base, divided into three sections with concrete blocks. He adds whatever he's got to the fresh end, works it for a few months with occasional turning using a manure fork, moves it to the secondary area for finishing, then to the finished area to use. He says he got tired of roots invading the mulch and losing too much of it when he had it on bare dirt, and that having the concrete base makes hand turning more reasonable. He also had a little hill he could build it into, so that he can just back his truck up to the top and shovel manure or whatever he has in easily.

Chuck