Ultra Low Sulfur Fuel & Injector Pumps

bill18163 · Aug 26, 2009

Brother in law just had a shut down of his 1999 Dodge with a Cummins diesel in it. He gave me the trouble codes for the problem and from what I found it looks like his injector pump is shot because Bosch may not have designed the pump for low sulfur fuel. Some of the info I dug up suggests using some sort of additive in the fuel for older vehicles not designed to run on low sulfur fuel. Is it possible that we as tractor owners could have the same problem? One of my Kubota tractors is a 2000 B2710.

WH401 · Aug 26, 2009

Of course. Fuel pumps need the natural lubricity that used to be found in diesel fuel before they took all the sulfur out of it. When they went down to 15ppm diesel fuel, you lost all of that natural lubricity for the fuel pump, and injectors, and other fuel system parts, kinda along the lines of when they took lead out of gasoline. Just run a fuel additive that adds lubricity back to the fuel, such as Power Service, and you shouldn't have a problem.

On the 99' Cummins, the VP44 going out probably wasn't solely to do to the lack of lubricity in the fuel. I have no doubts that it was part of the problem though because any diesel vehicle made before the current emissions diesel that were introduced in 07.5 - 08 that are on the market today weren't made to run on ULSD. In the older vehicles it'll eat the seals on the fuel systems that don't have synthetic rubber seals, and it'll wear out basic fuel system components from the lack of lubricity. I would expect the main reason why the VP44 went out was because the Carter lift pump feeding it finally failed, or it was just the VP44's time.

The original 24 valves engines made from 98.5 - 02 are notorious for fuel pump failures, mainly due to the Carter lift pump that feeds them being inadequate. After you replace the VP44, install an aftermarket lift pump, such as an Airdog or FASS. They'll be the last lift pump you ever install and reliability should never be an issue again. Not to mention that most aftermarket LP's come equipped with filtration system's that are better than the factory, around say 3 microns or so.

bill18163 · Aug 27, 2009

WH401,
What's your take on using the ultra low diesel fuel in 2008-2009 Kubota tractors? Will they hold up without additives in the fuel?

WH401 · Aug 27, 2009

bill18163 said:
WH401,
What's your take on using the ultra low diesel fuel in 2008-2009 Kubota tractors? Will they hold up without additives in the fuel?

The new diesel tractors on the market today are more emission compliant than the tractors of only a few years ago, but they still don't have the complicated emissions systems such as the DPF's and EGR's that the new diesel trucks do. To me, as long as a diesel engine doesn't have either a DPF or EGR, or any other kind of complicated emission equipment, than I would run an additive. The only reason I wouldn't if they did have all that stuff is because the additive can cause the DPF and EGR to plug up more easily. It's very possible that Kubota, JD, and others, have started designing their fuel systems to coexist with ULSD, but I personally wouldn't want to take the chance.

ruralruss · Aug 27, 2009

WH401 said:
The new diesel tractors on the market today are more emission compliant than the tractors of only a few years ago, but they still don't have the complicated emissions systems such as the DPF's and EGR's that the new diesel trucks do. To me, as long as a diesel engine doesn't have either a DPF or EGR, or any other kind of complicated emission equipment, than I would run an additive. The only reason I wouldn't if they did have all that stuff is because the additive can cause the DPF and EGR to plug up more easily. It's very possible that Kubota, JD, and others, have started designing their fuel systems to coexist with ULSD, but I personally wouldn't want to take the chance.

My new Kubota B3200 manual specifically says to use ULSD and only use LSD if ULSD is not available. It also says to NOT use high sulfur diesel at all!

Russ

WH401 · Aug 27, 2009

ruralruss said:
My new Kubota B3200 manual specifically says to use ULSD and only use LSD if ULSD is not available. It also says to NOT use high sulfur diesel at all!

Russ

It'll run on it without a problem though. Plus it wouldn't be detrimental to the system to run LSD like it would a new diesel truck with a DPF and EGR because you don't have to worry about the possibility of either of those things plugging up from the excess soot that is created from the high sulfur fuel. Either way, my opinion would be to run an additive.

Dargo · Aug 27, 2009

Let me preface my comments by saying that I don't know squat about the chemistry of fuel or oil. I've read a lot and asked a lot of questions, but all of what I say is not to be taken as absolute fact. Now that I've clarified that, my supplier (who will be at my place tomorrow to refill my tanks) tells me that the refineries add some additive package to account for any reduced lubricity and, I'm told, that sulfur, is not a lubricant but a contaminant.

Again, if that info is wrong, don't ask me to back it up because I've clearly stated that I can't. It's only what I've been told by a few people who are in the industry. Still, just because they are in the industry doesn't automatically make them experts. For example, do you think a used car salesman is a good ultimate authority on vehicles?

WH401 · Aug 27, 2009

Dargo said:
Let me preface my comments by saying that I don't know squat about the chemistry of fuel or oil. I've read a lot and asked a lot of questions, but all of what I say is not to be taken as absolute fact. Now that I've clarified that, my supplier (who will be at my place tomorrow to refill my tanks) tells me that the refineries add some additive package to account for any reduced lubricity and, I'm told, that sulfur, is not a lubricant but a contaminant.

Again, if that info is wrong, don't ask me to back it up because I've clearly stated that I can't. It's only what I've been told by a few people who are in the industry. Still, just because they are in the industry doesn't automatically make them experts. For example, do you think a used car salesman is a good ultimate authority on vehicles?

Your supplier is right, sulfur is a contaminant. 1. to the air after diesel fuel is burned, and 2. because the higher sulfur content causes more acid to form in a diesel engines oil over time and thus this was why you wanted an oil with a high TBN rating, to have better control over the acid forming. Though, sulfur is a lubricant however, in one form or another. Whether it be because of it's natural properties, or the reaction that occurs when it comes in contact with the metal, rubber, and any other parts of the fuel system.

Like the used car salesman that routinely bypass the subject of showing you the actual CarFax report?

RWEST · Aug 28, 2009

Regardless of whether sulfur is good or bad, the fact remains that pre-ULSD injector pumps are dying when used with ULSD. There was a discussion here some time ago, in reference to a study at DieselPlace about the problem.

As a result of reading that info, we contacted the local Shaeffer guy to procure their "Diesel Treat" product for our pre-'07 equipment - while the guy was here, he mentioned that their injector-pump rebuilding division's business is booming.