Unimaginable Gun accident

Soundguy · Sep 12, 2004

( home defense. If I was in bear country, I'd sure like either one (especially the .454) as a backup sidearm to the rifle I'd be carrying. )

Wheni used to hog hunt, I carried a 30-30 as my longgun, and my 44 as a side arm, for close encounters. I swapped that to my .50AE when I bought it... again.. a huge gun.

If you don't like the 44mag.., or a .454 wheelgun try a .50AE one day... it's a decent size auto...

Soundguy

r0GuE · Sep 17, 2004

W O W!!!
I cannot believe anyone would give a pistol of that calliber to a child. That is a monster of a round. That said, I truely would never have thought it would kill him with recoil (though I bet I would have invisioned a possible injury). I can remember being in my early teens and how violent the 45 Govt model seemed to me. Now that I am an adult, it is my weapon of choice and totally controlable. Kids are not small adults. Not in decision capability, nor in coordination, strength etc.

Tragic... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
- If it can happen, sonner or later it will.

DocHeb · Sep 17, 2004

( and a tragic accident. Nothing more then that... )

I must object. An accident is an occurance that is unpredictable and unpreventable. This was not an accident. Although the exact injury may not have been predictable, the thought that the gun was too big probably entered the minds of those involved. Once that thought is ignored, you move beyond "accident".

I do agree that this was a ( tragic error in judgement... ) I suspect there may have even been some element of sadism within the group (i.e. - let's watch the gun knock him down and get a good laugh!).

Yes a tragic event, but preventable by following gun safety rules as described by others in this thread.

ejb · Sep 17, 2004

>>I must object. An accident is an occurence that is unpredictable and unpreventable. This was not an accident. Although the exact injury may not have been predictable, the thought that the gun was too big probably entered the minds of those involved. Once that thought is ignored, you move beyond "accident".

I have to agree with you. The father was in the wrong. Unfortunately the 12 year old paid with his life, and the father will probably regret it for the rest of his.

Not sure why anyone would try to defend the fathers extremely poor judgement. If I handed over a monster chainsaw that is hard to handle even for most adults to a 12 year old child and he cut-off his leg and died, I wonder how many people would be lining up to defend me and declare it "just an accident"?

Currmudgeon · Sep 17, 2004

A f(r)iend nearly duplicated that accident with his .44 Mag Blackhawk. He was used to firing it single handed in the old duellist's stance. You naturally lock your elbow in that position.

He was experimenting with something like an isoceles, two handed grip. You have to consciously lock your elbow with that grip, and he didn't. Nailed himself right between the eyes. Fortunately for him, he was wearing his motorcycle helmet in lieu of ear protectors. Took a nasty chunk of fibreglass out of the helmet.

It's easy to not realize how much energy is being absorbed by your body when you're using bone-to-bone structure to absorb it.

It sounds like the 12-year old did much the same thing.

I'm going to post this accident on a couple of other fora.

markct · Sep 17, 2004

did anyone see the thing about the guy that shot himself in the leg while teaching a gun safety course? it happened a few weeks ago, i couldnt believe that when i read it, makes ya think he shouldnt be teachin that sorta thing

Currmudgeon · Sep 17, 2004

Your link has gone bad. I'm posting the full text as it looks like they're gonna move it again:

Gun Recoil Claims Life of 12 Year Old Boy

Lee County Sheriff Chief Deputy Rodney Meyer leads the investigation of the death Marcus Wall. The investigation continues into the accident.

- A 12-year-old San Antonio boy died Saturday afternoon south of Giddings when he was struck on the top of the head by the recoil of a Ruger .454 gun he was firing. The boy, identified by the Lee County Sheriff’s Office as Marcus Wall, was pronounced dead at the scene by Justice of the Peace Paul Fischer.

Sheriff’s Deputy Rodney Meyer stated that the victim and his father, Marc Wall, were with friends dove hunting on the Zoch place off County Road 233. Deputy Meyer reported that when the hunters took a break for lunch, they began shooting a variety of guns owned within the group. The Ruger .454 Casull was purportedly owned by Joe Ramsey of Austin.

According to the Sheriff’s report, when Marcus asked to shoot the Ruger, Ramsey told the young boy the gun was too large for him to shoot. However, allegedly it was later “ OK’ed for him [Marcus] to shoot the gun”. The report did not identify who gave permission for the child to shoot, though Ramsey stood by the boy when he fired.

From the Sheriff’s account of the incident, Marcus was instructed how to hold and shoot the gun. “Mr. Ramsey assisted the victim [when taking aim] by holding his hand above the victim’s [hands] for the recoil,” explained Deputy Meyer.

When the gun was fired, the gun recoiled upward, hitting Marcus in the head causing head trauma. The gun’s owner, Ramsey, received injury to his fingers but was not transported for medical attention.

The Sheriff’s Office 911 dispatch received two calls reporting the incident, though only the second caller could identify their location. Deputy Mike York advised dispatch that he was in the area and had been flagged down and directed to the location. Upon arrival at the scene, Deputy York radioed to dispatch to cancel the call for an ambulance and to send out a Justice of the Peace.

The recoil velocity of the Ruger .454 has been noted for its strength for some time. In a May 2001 article in Shooting Times, author Dick Metcalf reported that “...when the .454 Casull version of the Super Redhawk was introduced in 1999, Ruger spokesmen candidly acknowledged they did not expect the new chambering to be shot a lot for casual plinking or for steel-target competition. Its recoil was simply too severe.”

Deputy Meyer stated that the case is still under investigation.

http://www.lexingtonleader.com/story10.shtml

shvl73 · Sep 17, 2004

Just up the road from me is where Massad Ayoob teaches & one of his students shot herself in the leg this summer. Something about the wrong holster for the Glock or something, or so they said. I would think it would be a little embarrassing for a renowned firearms insructor to have a student shoot themselves. It must have done some damage, I read it was a 10mm.

Currmudgeon · Sep 17, 2004

A f(r)iend witnessed a similar accident at Gunsite, back when Jeff Cooper still ran the place. Someone attempted to holster a pistol with his finger through the triggerguard. Plowed a furrow in his leg. I don't think his butt hit the ground til it was 100 yards past the front gate.

Knute · Sep 17, 2004

Thanks for posting the link and the text of the article Dennis. I've posted that on my website and a another where many people shoot those kinds of loads. It's a good, but very sad, reminder for us to be carefull who we let shoot the larger calibers.

John