Used Value vs Age

[blehmann]

I read the first four pages of this thread and the last three pages. I don't come on here much, but does the train leave the track fairly often? It is actually quite entertaining. Who'd have thought that a thread about age vs value would morph into tires and global cooling. Excuse me while I go read the sixteen pages in between to see where the bump in the track is.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I know where this conversation will lead so I will be the one to go down the rabbit hole.

Some government regulations are a necessary evel. That said, it always feels like they went too far when it effects usability of something YOU want. Sometimes technology will catch up to the requirements and you end up with a better machine because of it. Look at how reliable cars have become and how well they run compared to the early days of emission controls. Not sure if this will be the case for diesel emissions. Time will tell.

I am about to buy a good used washer and dryer. New washing machines were regulated to a max of 26 gallons of water and it doesn't cover the load. Reviews on new ones are all over the place but quite a few complain of clothes not getting clean. Complaints are such that Home Depot lists all new washers and dryers as NON-RETURNABLE. Apparently you can spring for a commercial unit that escapes the regulation at near double the price of a consumer model. BUT they don't sell them in any of the normal consumer stores.

I want a mid size cab tractor one of these days. I will probably have to pay near new price to get a pre emission model or suck it up and buy a new one with lots of electronics and pauses in use while it regenerates. Not in my budget either way right now so I will cross that road when I get to it. Finding a good pre emission model is becoming more and more impossible. People are not selling them and if they do they fetch a premium price.

It reminds me of guitars. It's like the pre emissions tractors have become highly sought after collectables. Who would have thought?

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Not only do they reduce efficiency, but they also create more heat.
Anyone who makes a living around machinery or vehicles knows those hot DPFs, Catalytic Converters, etc create equipment life-shortening heat which creates all kinds of issues, from the possibility of wild fires, to discomfort of operation, requiring more air conditioning in cabs to shortening of component life, requiring more parts and services, which means more parts to be made in factories, which means increased pollution. More service truck trips from the dealer to the farm, mine, etc means more air pollution from service truck exhausts. Also there’s a human component. More service truck trips means more possibilities of death or injury in vehicular accidents or service persons injured servicing pollution equipment.
People in colleges just don’t understand the impact of all this pollution stuff they force on us. It’s not thought through completely.

"People in colleges just don’t understand the impact of all this pollution stuff they force on us. It’s not thought through completely."

They don't care, it's not their money. Most of those people are on the public dole and it's other peoples money that is funding their ideas not their own. The worst thing about it is none of this is about the environment at all, it's just a scam to raise taxes and increase government control and power.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

If the reliability of all the environmental crap was so good, there would be no need to exempt the US military from having to comply. But, since it would be bad press for the politicians to have to admit that your son died because when his tank went into limp mode due to (a. a failed exhaust injector in the DPF system, b. bad NOX sensor, c. bad calibration of MAF sensor indicated EGR malfunction, etc. -- Take your pick) it made it easy for an enemy insurgent to climb on the vehicle and burn him out with a quart of gasoline. The fact that the same issues cost you your ability to make a living is pooh poohed as a minor inconvenience for the greater good, despite the fact that your taxes aren't reduced as compensation for being a beta tester of their poorly thought out regulations, nor does the government compensate you for the lost time due to parts unavailability and no ability to bypass the the systems -- even in an emergency. Sorry keep your kool-aid. I guess the heat during the jurassic & cretaceous periods were due to excess dinosaur farts that weren't fixed by catalytic converters & exhaust restrictors in their asses. We may or may not be getting global warming. If we are, MAN has nothing to do with it, we are simply returning to a more normal temperature (from a geologic perspective). Say good bye to the Tail end of the ice age and welcome the new era. Alternatively ... if you lean that way, welcome the terraforming event that is being perpetrated on this planet by the aliens in Antarctica (where all the ozone depletion started) & get ready for the herd culling that they are about to start. I have no problem with clean water & clean air, but for the short time that humans have been the dominant species on land, we are still insignificant actors in the grand scheme, and I refuse to buy into the popular propaganda that we alone are responsible & that our actions will somehow stop the inevitable. Neanderthals & Cro-magnons were probably having this same argument when they noticed the temps dropping & winters lasting longer

"If the reliability of all the environmental crap was so good, there would be no need to exempt the US military from having to comply."

That right there is the argument of arguments that destroys everything the EPA and the government is saying. My hats off to you for pointing this out as I have never heard it said until now.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I’ve seen more problems out of new stuff than used stuff. It seems that just about everything new has bugs to work out where used stuff is proven reliable.

That's often the case with anything in the beginning of it's product life cycle.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I don't think that anyone is arguing the fact that vehicles (cars, tractors, motorcycles, even bicycles) have improved tremendously because of technology. Technology can not only be good. It can be wonderful. However that doesn't mean that all technology is good. It can be overdone, and doesn't always provide a good tradeoff in terms of cost and/or problems versus improved performance.

Take DPF's on diesel tractors for instance. DPF's catch heavy particulates. In downtown LA heavy particulates are a big problem. They should be caught and not put into the atmosphere, particularly in downtown LA. But these heavy particulates don't travel far. In the rural areas that have few vehicles and lots of land (and air) these particulates are not that much of a pollution problem. I have no problem with getting rid of particulates, even in the rural setting. But getting rid of them with today's technology means increased fuel consumption and increased co2 emissions, along with repeated reliability issues. Is a DPF a good trade-off and wise environmental decision? Not in my book.

The lets look at computers on compact tractors. I recently looked at a new 55 hp Yanmar. Virtually everything on it is computer controlled. Does it really do provide far reaching advantages that the average person who buys that tractor needs or will even use? Not really. My neighbor recently sold his relatively new TYM tractor because of repeated "computer problems" that the dealer had a hard time diagnosing and fixing. Are computers a big benefit in compact tractors? Might be someday, but not today in my book.

"My neighbor recently sold his relatively new TYM tractor because of repeated "computer problems" that the dealer had a hard time diagnosing and fixing."

Can you share more information about this? What year and model TYM tractor did he have?

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Agree. That is pretty bad. I think some people guzzle the end of the world kool aid. It’s like they want the world disasters.
However, I know it’s all about 2 things, money and power.
And unless there’s a new and radical change from what is going on with the environment now, nobody will ever change my mind.

At the rate they're going with this foolish and wasteful spending the end of the world for us Americans is going to be bankruptcy not the environment.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Most driven tractor tires are directional as well, so I wouldn't be surprised somebody here saw your hot rod's tires and thought they looked a little "off."

Really??

 

[Torvy]

Wow, so it took awhile, but I got through the whole thread thus far. A couple of things...there is a huge false equivalency between improved fuel efficiency in autos and emissions on farm tractors...the shear number of cars compared to tractors is one thing, add in the relatively low usage of the Average tractor versus the average car and then the fact that most tractors hours are logged a fair distance from other tractors...then you have the diesel particulates versus fuel usage, someone up thread explained it well: particulates are heavier than air and do not travel far, they also are much more diffused than a diesel bus in a city, for example.

I am not a smart guy, but I know when I don't know. For me, personally, there is little difference in maintaining new versus old as my skill set in mechanics is highly lacking. But I do know that most who farm for a living, have considerably more of those skills and when dealing with tiny margins can be overwhelmed by the cost of repairs that heretofore were able to be done at home.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

lol! I remember that crap too! One of our hero’s of the time , Spock (Nemoy) narrating a serious documentary explaining global freezing. “Live long and prosper”.

So I watched the video and did some research of my own and it turns out this Dr. Gifford Miller who was crying an ice age was coming is now saying the total opposite. You can watch the video here: