User circuit DK45 Cab

[kiotiken]

Thanks James, that was a great explanation. The cost benefit of using less wire seems to be greatly off set by the cost of a relay, but the losses from running long distances makes a lot of sense. Obviously having smaller, nicer looking switches is important to.

I have no idea how much current the factory switches can handle and if they use a relay, but I did ask to buy a couple from my dealer when I was planning more lights. He quoted me over $50 each, so I quickly took a pass. Not sure if that indicates a switch that can handle higher amps.

 

[k0ua]

Thanks James, that was a great explanation. The cost benefit of using less wire seems to be greatly off set by the cost of a relay, but the losses from running long distances makes a lot of sense. Obviously having smaller, nicer looking switches is important to.

I have no idea how much current the factory switches can handle and if they use a relay, but I did ask to buy a couple from my dealer when I was planning more lights. He quoted me over $50 each, so I quickly took a pass. Not sure if that indicates a switch that can handle higher amps.

Unknown on the switches, I would have to see their rating. Another reason to use relays, but not in our low voltage application like in a vehicle, but in high voltage applications, for safety. For example if you were switching a high voltage you would not want it anywhere near the operator, but a simple low voltage switch could control high voltage/high currents through a relay or series of relays remotely, keeping the operator safe. There are many many other reasons, but that is enough for now.

James K0UA

 

[Coyote machine]

grs, rmorey, CM, I appreciate the info. I did look up relays and contactors to try and learn something for next time. I'm still confused about them and why they're needed (not that I doubt any of you at all) and why a switch can't handle 6 or 12 V, after all, household switches can handle 15V. Do the factory switches simply control relays somewhere before they hit the lights, both front and back? <SNIP>

KK, don't know if it's a typo, but household~AC and DC~ Tractor/auto switches are both rated in AMPS, not volts, (though household switches rate for instance 120V/15A). This is because one could be using a dryer receptacle, for instance, which uses 240V wiring, (essentially 2 qty 110V wires=240V) and a load rating of 30 Amps.
Look at it this way: your tractor wiring is geared to higher draw lights that suck up more current, (in amps) than your LED lights do. So most lights wiring is designed to handle the load of a higher demand light or whatever is at the end of the circuit drawing x amount of amps. Volts is potential, amps is load applied through the circuit. So in a water analogy, the dam holds so many volts, and the pipe size allows so many amps, (current) to flow through a certain size pipe,(ex: wire rated for 15 amps). And excess current/flow is stopped, (to protect the wiring from overheating, by a fuse melting when there is excess flow/current/amps). The relay allows one to open the dam's gate to allow the current/amps to flow without the operator putting themselves at risk by having to open the gate personally - the switch activates the remotely located relay, which does the work for them. All is well in Holland, land of locks and dams, and damsels.:laughing:


From KK Quote: " CM, for you, I'll start adding a space. Thanks KK! I thought I was being nice by at least breaking them on to separate lines! Those bullet connectors have something in them from the factory, not sure if it's dielectric grease. I can't use heat shrink tubing since the lights have to be disconnected in order to open the roof panel of the cab (along with the radio antenna). Kioti did a poor job IMO with access to the roof, not only do you have to disconnect the lights and radio, you have to remove the grey light bar at the front of the cab."

Sure seems like Kioti fell down on the cab roof. Is is supposed to open? Having to remove all the above to open the cab roof sounds ridiculous.
Kioti's dealer price on a relay to run lights is likely more a dealer markup of a Kioti proprietary relay than anything special about it from any other relay that could do the job. Though think about the amount of copper and other wiring components that go into one and that could explain it too. Wiring components and wire these days are NOT cheap. You should be able to find an online supplier of offroad lights/wiring to buy a little less costly relays and such, for future reference.

Let's see pics, properly spaced, of those bad boys blistering paint off the neighbors car AT NIGHT!:cool2:

 

[kiotiken]

KK, don't know if it's a typo, but household~AC and DC~ Tractor/auto switches are both rated in AMPS, not volts...

No, not a typo, just a disconnect between my brain and the keyboard. Amps is what my brain wanted on the screen.

Sure seems like Kioti fell down on the cab roof. Is is supposed to open? Having to remove all the above to open the cab roof sounds ridiculous.

Ya, it's supposed to open, it's even hinged on the back. My JDB cab was hinged as well, but you didn't have to disconnect the lights to open it. Also, there are 8 bolts to remove for the front grey light bar that has to come off, not to mention 4 more bolts for the roof. Two of the roof bolts only come off when you remove the grey light bar, and you can't disconnect the lights until the roof is open, so you end up with a disconnected light bar balanced on the windshield wiper that would be dangling by the lights if it fell. NOT the best design I can think of.

Kioti's dealer price on a relay to run lights is likely more a dealer markup of a Kioti proprietary relay than anything special about it from any other relay that could do the job. Though think about the amount of copper and other wiring components that go into one and that could explain it too. Wiring components and wire these days are NOT cheap. You should be able to find an online supplier of offroad lights/wiring to buy a little less costly relays and such, for future reference.

To be fair, I asked for the identical switches and the factory switches are lit. They are just switches for $50 and to me, lit or not, that seemed crazy. I don't doubt my dealer has that marked way up though.

Let's see pics, properly spaced, of those bad boys blistering paint off the neighbors car AT NIGHT!:cool2:

I'm going to work on the rear lights and finish up the front lights tonight. Not sure how much I'll get done, but I will post pictures when I am. It's absolutely crazy the difference with just the 4 lights on the front. 4 more are going on the back and if I don't sell the 2 remaining lights (bought a pack of 10 on ebay), I may try and find somewhere to stick them too.

 

[kiotiken]

Another reason to use relays, but not in our low voltage application like in a vehicle, but in high voltage applications, for safety. For example if you were switching a high voltage you would not want it anywhere near the operator, but a simple low voltage switch could control high voltage/high currents through a relay or series of relays remotely, keeping the operator safe.

James K0UA

Makes sense, especially for the push button start on a Prius!

 

[rmorey]

Lots of good stuff here. I cant add anything. James did a great job explaining the relays. :thumbsup:

Funny, if you wanted Kioti parts, ya gotta pay! A few minutes in Cdn Tire or any auto parts place would get you the same basic switches and relays for 1/3 the price. Good thing we didnt have to buy these tractors one piece at a time! :laughing:

 

[Coyote machine]

No, not a typo, just a disconnect between my brain and the keyboard. Amps is what my brain wanted on the screen.
Well then, amps it is! Just wanted to make sure of what you were referring to...



Ya, it's supposed to open, it's even hinged on the back. So, open for user to add ventilation, or open to remove top completely- what's their intended purpose? My JDB cab was hinged as well, but you didn't have to disconnect the lights to open it. Also, there are 8 bolts to remove for the front grey light bar that has to come off, not to mention 4 more bolts for the roof. Two of the roof bolts only come off when you remove the grey light bar, and you can't disconnect the lights until the roof is open, so you end up with a disconnected light bar balanced on the windshield wiper that would be dangling by the lights if it fell. NOT the best design I can think of.
You're a master of understatement! I can't imagine what they were thinking with that crazy sequence of dis-assembly?! Maybe the lightbar was an afterthought after the cab/roof had been stamped for production...



To be fair, I asked for the identical switches and the factory switches are lit. They are just switches for $50 and to me, lit or not, that seemed crazy. I don't doubt my dealer has that marked way up though.
Probably right about small markup- and ridiculous price for just a switch, lit or not. That's where OEM's get us.



I'm going to work on the rear lights and finish up the front lights tonight. Not sure how much I'll get done, but I will post pictures when I am. It's absolutely crazy the difference with just the 4 lights on the front. 4 more are going on the back and if I don't sell the 2 remaining lights (bought a pack of 10 on ebay), I may try and find somewhere to stick them too.

Curious, can you let us know what a 10 pak runs in el norte Americano dollares? (Ameribucks) You could put the extras on your JD lawn tractor.

Thanks,

CM

 

[kiotiken]

So, open for user to add ventilation, or open to remove top completely- what's their intended purpose?

Curious, can you let us know what a 10 pak runs in el norte Americano dollares? (Ameribucks) You could put the extras on your JD lawn tractor.

Thanks,

CM

There's a lot of stuff up there, radio, speakers, heating equipment, wiring etc. The roof tilts open to gain access to all of it. Even with the roof tilted open, there's still a ceiling in the cab, it just provides access to what's between the cab ceiling and the roof. On top of that, the SE cabs (I don't think the S cabs were the same) are two layered. The orange molded plastic cant be seperated from the inner black plastic and the space they've created between them is used as ducting for the heating/AC system. It's actually pretty cool. If you need to take it right off (as I did to have it repaired) you take the last four bolts out of the hinges in the back. Here's what it looks like up there.



Here's the two layers of the roof.



No JD lawn tractor here just the Kioti and a Ferris ZTR. When the sun goes down in the summer, it's time to stop mowing the lawn anyway! I put them on kijiji, but I'll find somewhere to put them on the Kioti if they don't sell. Maybe chute lights for the snow blower ala 4shorts. My winning bid on a 10 pk was $270 USD and they have the "buy now" option around $320. They shipped from China (where else) and I had them in about 10 days. They are much higher quality than I expected, which is nice.

 

[k0ua]

Ken, keep the last 2 for spares in case you tear one off or it goes defective.. You will be assured of having matching replacements for years to come.

james K0UA

 

[kiotiken]

Ken, keep the last 2 for spares in case you tear one off or it goes defective.. You will be assured of having matching replacements for years to come.

james K0UA

A defective Chinese product, really, that happens? hmmm, not a bad point.