Using a power steering pump for hydraulics

[GT2]

I'm sure this has been discussed but a search dident bring anything up.
Is is possible to use the power steering pump to raise and lower lift cylinders?
Thanks, Tim

 

[zzvyb6]

A passenger car power steering pump puts out about 2 gal per minute at 1200 - 1500 psi. A heavy duty pickup truck pump may give you 3.4 gal per minute. Do the math. Either it will be slow or have limited force output. Don't forget loaders generally usea pair of cylinders if that's where you are headed with this. But if that's all you have to work with, go for it !

 

[Bedlam]

I couldnt find much on this but its an interesting point id suspect you also should consider the amount its going take to move the cylinder.The load. I look forward to the posts .

 

[GT2]

I was thinking of using it for a single cylinder for up down on a snow plow and a single cylinder for a 3 point. Speed and power might not be a concern?
Wasn't sure if it could be T'd off the power steering or not.

 

[J_J]

I was thinking of using it for a single cylinder for up down on a snow plow and a single cylinder for a 3 point. Speed and power might not be a concern?
Wasn't sure if it could be T'd off the power steering or not.

Not your typical power steering pump, but.

Burden Sales Surplus Center Item Detail


This is what I have on my Power-Trac for my steering, and lift and tilt. It puts out enough force to lift 1200 lbs and steer a 3900 lb machine. This pump is driven by the fan belt. Just add a simple valve, and you are good to go for any snow operation.

 

[Kernopelli]

Speed and power sometimes don't sound as important as they are...until you start using your new hydraulics and find out they are painfully slow or under powered. You may be able to use your existing PS pump but I would first find out the specs on it and make sure it is up to snuff. You may just want to hook up an automotive steering pump off the fan belt. Here are a couple of links I used when researching the retrofitting of my tractor with an automotive power steering pump. I think it would work fine for your application. The link to Pirate 4X4 covers power steering specifically but more importantly gives a lot of info on pumps and most of the readers this was written for are using typical agricultural style hydraulic cylinders. In place of an orbital valve you would use a typical lever type control valve and basic plumbing to the cylinder(s). You should be able to gleen enough petinant information from the site to be able to decide if this style pump is what you want to go with. Baums calculators can help you decide what your existing pump or and auto style pump will power and how fast.

Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive
Baum Hydraulics Corp :: Spec Calculator (to figure out some configurations)

 

[GT2]

Speed and power sometimes don't sound as important as they are...until you start using your new hydraulics and find out they are painfully slow or under powered. You may be able to use your existing PS pump but I would first find out the specs on it and make sure it is up to snuff. You may just want to hook up an automotive steering pump off the fan belt. Here are a couple of links I used when researching the retrofitting of my tractor with an automotive power steering pump. I think it would work fine for your application. The link to Pirate 4X4 covers power steering specifically but more importantly gives a lot of info on pumps and most of the readers this was written for are using typical agricultural style hydraulic cylinders. In place of an orbital valve you would use a typical lever type control valve and basic plumbing to the cylinder(s). You should be able to gleen enough petinant information from the site to be able to decide if this style pump is what you want to go with. Baums calculators can help you decide what your existing pump or and auto style pump will power and how fast.

Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive
Baum Hydraulics Corp :: Spec Calculator (to figure out some configurations)

Thanks for the info.
Using info from those links it looks like the pump I want to use would work quite well on smaller single cylinders.
I plan to use it with a serpentine belt and over drive it a little.

 

[RickB]

I was thinking of using it for a single cylinder for up down on a snow plow and a single cylinder for a 3 point. Speed and power might not be a concern?
Wasn't sure if it could be T'd off the power steering or not.

You need to learn a whole lot more about hydraulics if you are considering "Tee" ing into an open center system, especially a steering system. That in and of itself doesn't work, period. And it is a gigantic safety issue as well, in the absence of a priority valve, to go mucking about within a steering system. After all that is addressed, then you can work on the pressure and flow requirements of what you intend to power.

 

[GT2]

You need to learn a whole lot more about hydraulics if you are considering "Tee" ing into an open center system, especially a steering system.

this is why I'm asking here.

That in and of itself doesn't work, period.

care to elaborate?

And it is a gigantic safety issue as well, in the absence of a priority valve, to go mucking about within a steering system. After all that is addressed, then you can work on the pressure and flow requirements of what you intend to power.

Its easy to say " it wont work" how about saying how it might possibly work?

 

[DANOCHEESE]

I have used a second PS pump for years on a old fisher snow plow. MAde a resivoir for additional fluid out of PVC pipe. It works not great but i does owrk better than everything else on the truck. A new fisher belt driven pump was over 500.

 

[brandoro]

A millwright welder I worked with a few years ago had built himself a little garden tractor mostly out of junk. I suspect he just wanted to see if he could. His hydraulics were powered with a power steering pump off an old car. I never saw it so can't say how he did it but in conversation it sounded like he had managed to get the power steering pump to operate cylinders and a small hydraulic motor.

By the way, if you fill out your profile so we know what kind of machine you have we will be better able to answer your question(s).

 

[RickB]

Its easy to say " it wont work" how about saying how it might possibly work?

I have a clear understanding of open center hydraulic systems. Adding a T to a pump output line and supplying two open center valves does not work. It isn't a maybe/maybe not situation. At a minimum you need the valves plumbed in series, and the first needs to have power beyiond flow feeding the second. If an actual steering system is involved, that needs to have priority flow.

I am not taking exception to using a P/S pump, I have a huge problem with the way you are proposing to plumb the system. If it is slow or weak that is one thing. If it is non functional, or compromises steering control and/or components, that's entirely another.

 

[GT2]

Please school me if I'm wrong.
The saginaw "TC" pump and auto steering gear I'm using are not open center style.
The pump flows as long as there is a demand and then goes into internal by-pass.
If the pump is in by-pass why cant I use that flow for something else?
I would think that at worst I would have redused assist if using two things at once?
Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive
Click and scroll down to read about sagunaw pumps.

PS, Im not married to this idea, I could always run two pumps.

 

[J_J]

Please school me if I'm wrong.
The saginaw "TC" pump and auto steering gear I'm using are not open center style.
The pump flows as long as there is a demand and then goes into internal by-pass.
If the pump is in by-pass why cant I use that flow for something else?
I would think that at worst I would have redused assist if using two things at once?
Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive
Click and scroll down to read about sagunaw pumps.

PS, Im not married to this idea, I could always run two pumps.

Maybe you can,. The steering system on the Power-Trac, uses the hydraulic fluid from a pump, to steer only if the steering wheel is turned. The fluid goes through the pump via a priority circuit, and feeds the lift and tilt cylinders, If you try and steer at the same time, the lift force will diminish. On the PS pump, when you are bypassing, I would assume that the fluid is going back to tank. If you interrupt the flow, with a valve, then the valve might operate a cylinder or whatever. Just hook it up and test your theory.

 

[ray66v]

I used a GM p/s pump many years ago, to run a small cylinder on my lawn tractor. The cylinder was a steering cylinder off a Ford granada.

Though the pump had about a 6 inch pulley, it put out so much fluid, I had trouble slowing it down enough to keep it from over heating. I was finally able to drive it slow enough with a 1.5 inch diameter pulley on the engine.

At an idle, you could see the writing on the belt, as it turned. Yet, it would still operate the cylinder with enough power to pick up a 100lb snow blower, with a 160lb man sitting on it.

 

[RickB]

Please school me if I'm wrong.
The saginaw "TC" pump and auto steering gear I'm using are not open center style.
The pump flows as long as there is a demand and then goes into internal by-pass.
If the pump is in by-pass why cant I use that flow for something else?
I would think that at worst I would have redused assist if using two things at once?
Pirate4x4.Com - Extreme Four Wheel Drive
Click and scroll down to read about sagunaw pumps.

PS, Im not married to this idea, I could always run two pumps.

The more info you give upfront, the better info you get in return.
You didn't specify any pump, valve, or cylinder application.
Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[GT2]

The more info you give upfront, the better info you get in return.
You didn't specify any pump, valve, or cylinder application.
Garbage in, garbage out.

You know... there is no excuse for your attitude!
As a so called "expert" you should have known a steering pump self relieves.

 

[Egon]

I am assuming you are talking about adding an automotive power steering pump that operates recirculating ball power steering system that requires around 3 gallon a minute to function properly.

Some of the small HST tractors with loaders are operating with pump capacity of just a little over 3 gallons a minute I do believe.

It should be easy to look at some statistics for tractors to give you a real good idea.

 

[mwb]

You know... there is no excuse for your attitude!
As a so called "expert" you should have known a steering pump self relieves.

I am not throwing gas on a small fire here but I don't think a PS pump does this. The pump has a pressure relief valve but it is the steering gear / rack that does the open center part. The PS pump is of a fixed displacement, it requires an open center system or the relief valve will open and squeel.

PS pumps can be used for other applications; check out Mile Marker winches for example - they offer accessory hose kits to attach their gear in series with the power steering system.

 

[Olmike]

Around here back in the late 70's,rear mounted bale spears were just comin on.There were alot of farmers plumbing in a single spool valve between the PS pump and the steering gear.They all worked ok but I think the DOT would probably frown on that now. Mike