Using an app to determine proposed boundry lines

   / Using an app to determine proposed boundry lines #51  
There is nothing wrong with land owners trying to survey their own property, no laws or rules against it. Obviously it carries less weight than a land surveyors work does. Like already said, finding the corners is key.

Land owners carry a lot of weight when it comes to the results of a survey. Them accepting the results of the survey and honoring the results make the survey valid. I got my license in 1992 and would estimate I’ve done maybe around a 1000 surveys. I can only think of two cases where the owner ignored the results of my work.
 
   / Using an app to determine proposed boundry lines #52  
MI has a GIS website (by county) that shows property lines and general owners info.

Actually quite accurate.....if the property has been surveyed.

Our lines are very accurate.
 
   / Using an app to determine proposed boundry lines #53  
MI has a GIS website (by county) that shows property lines and general owners info.

Actually quite accurate.....if the property has been surveyed.

Our lines are very accurate.
So, you have to watch out for basemap shift. Meaning, sure the lines are accurately spaced on the GIS, But the aerial map is out of wack. So, you might be able to clearly see on a GIS program that the power pole is at the property corner according to the aerial and lines; but in truth, between the aerial being fitted to GiS or whatever, maybe that power pole is 10 ft on other property. I routinely see it, where property appraiser GIS doesn't have the right of way accurately, and therefore, doesn't have adjacent property accurate either.
 
   / Using an app to determine proposed boundry lines #54  
MI has a GIS website (by county) that shows property lines and general owners info.

Actually quite accurate.....if the property has been surveyed.

Our lines are very accurate.
I wish my county here in East Texas was semi close to accurate. My place is made up of 3 parcels. One is just an acre, another is 23 acres. On their map, both are the same size.

My neighbor has a lot more land then I do. On the County Website, he has parcels that are just a couple acres that are bigger then parcels over 40 acres. It also shows our property line going right through the middle of my pond. But I know where the corner is, the pin is still there, and that line is hundreds of feet away from my pond.

My neighbor also has two natural gas pipelines going through his property. They where doing some clearing on the pipeline and using a Surveyor to mark where their right of way is for the pipeline. They got it wrong and cleared a bunch of my land, way off from the pipeline. Not a big deal, but kind of shocking that they where so far away from the actual pipeline and never questioned whey they where mowing over 100 feet away from the pipeline, when it's only a 50 foot wide easement.

The good part of that story is when I talked to them about it, they agreed to do a popery survey and find my corners for me so they would know where the property line is. Turned out the pins where still there, but not where me or my neighbor thought they where. In the end, my neighbor and I where very happy because of the survey, and I'm able to build my fence on the property line without any questions or doubts from him.
 
   / Using an app to determine proposed boundry lines
  • Thread Starter
#55  
In my area, Parcel Viewer VT is one option. Satellite view with a boundary grid laid over. This is what you have to acknowledge to move on...
1710255410714.png


Vermont Parcel Viewer | Disclaimer
Parcel data are general in nature and do not represent survey-grade boundary information. Substantial inaccuracies in boundary lines or Grand List attributes should be brought to the attention of the appropriate municipal clerk. Current parcel data are linked with the 2023 Grand List, reflective of April 1st of that year. Not all parcels have matching grand list entries. See the Vermont Parcel Program for more information.

A rough guestimate on my part, is one of the lines is 30' off. Another is spot on.
 
   / Using an app to determine proposed boundry lines #56  
I helped put together our county’s GIS. We drew all the boundaries and they supplied all the deeds to us. We also did ground control for the aerial fly over so the aerial photos are based on real world coordinates. The problem is there is no way to tie a persons deed into the aerial photos unless you went out a took GPS shots on the property corners. In other words it’s just a pretty picture.

Another issue is a lack of property corners. I don’t know an exact number but I’d estimate more than 75% of the property corners in my area are gone.
 
   / Using an app to determine proposed boundry lines #57  
So, you have to watch out for basemap shift. Meaning, sure the lines are accurately spaced on the GIS, But the aerial map is out of wack. So, you might be able to clearly see on a GIS program that the power pole is at the property corner according to the aerial and lines; but in truth, between the aerial being fitted to GiS or whatever, maybe that power pole is 10 ft on other property. I routinely see it, where property appraiser GIS doesn't have the right of way accurately, and therefore, doesn't have adjacent property accurate either.
Thanks. I didn't realize that, I'll have to take a closer look and check it out
 
   / Using an app to determine proposed boundry lines #58  
I’ve been laying out our property in NY w/ a view towards subdividing and have had some success using a drawing program (Procreate) to layer multiple images including aerials (mostly Google Earth), screenshots of LiDAR and wetlands (The National Map) and County maps of properties that the GIS online maps are based on. I take the wetland in their hydrography layers with a grain of salt as the stream paths seem to be offset 50 feet from the course plainly visible in the LiDar. The older topo maps (available as an alternate base map layer in the Map) were more accurate as far as stream paths. Likely some sort of base map shift like Paul Harvey cautioned about. The hydrography also contains accurate catchment maps based on the LiDar, allowing the ability to measure areas to estimate how much water it receives.

The ability to adjust transparency of the layers in Procreate in order to overlay the lot lines from the County property maps, matching up roads and terrain as accurately as possible. The northern and southern borders align with the Kayderosseros Patent survey, which was completed and filed in 1770. Centuries of timber harvests and clearings have built up berms along those lines in places where slash and roots have been discarded along with old border trees not being cleared, old roads and fence lines corresponding to the 1770 survey providing evidence of occupation that is visible on the LiDar images. Our S-W back corner is memorialized by a galvanized post set in the 1960’s survey sits on the edge of a ravine has helped tighten the accuracy of my estimates by comparing it to the LiDar.

One oddity we ran into was our north-south rear property line, that I had presumed was at a right angle to the northern and southern lines that correspond to the 1770 Patent survey lines, turned out to not be a right angle after all. In laying out division lines in Procreate I used the rear line as a reference. I also created lines using the N-W property lines as reference and rotating them 90 degrees in the app, resulting in a subtle difference in some lines that made everything look caddywhompus until I discovered the difference. I researched old maps and found that when the original 1855 survey was conducted the N-S rear line likely ran at a perfect right angle to the E-W line, but improvements when the road was first paved in the 1920’s cut about 50 feet off the SW corner of the property to smooth a sudden 35 degree turn in the State road, moving the S-E corner 50 foot east. So the 1960’s survey was accurate insofar as measuring rods and chains from today’s road. Changing the road path and so moving the rear corner over added a narrow slice of about an acre to our property, more or less. It’s mostly ravine and wetlands and no habitation nearby, so really of no import.
 
   / Using an app to determine proposed boundry lines #59  
There is nothing wrong with land owners trying to survey their own property, no laws or rules against it. Obviously it carries less weight than a land surveyors work does. Like already said, finding the corners is key.

Land owners carry a lot of weight when it comes to the results of a survey. Them accepting the results of the survey and honoring the results make the survey valid. I got my license in 1992 and would estimate I’ve done maybe around a 1000 surveys. I can only think of two cases where the owner ignored the results of my work.
Writing the legal description on a new parcel is challenging though.
 
   / Using an app to determine proposed boundry lines #60  
Dodge brings up a good point. When doing road work and utility work, in the piles of debris, you will often see some 4"×4" concrete property corners that got ripped out as part of the work.

We really do need to separate Lay-Out from Mortage Surveying, as well as legal description. Our OP is trying to separate a property from a parent parcel. No way in heck in 2024, even if accepted by county, would I ever have two neighbors write one of those, 'from fence meandering northwordly to the big tree, and turning westward toward the rock' kinda descriptions. You mention the neighbor kinda being long in the tooth, think his heirs won't fight you over that?
 
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