Using clutch as a brake?

[TerryR]

Using one brake to help turn works best with 'narrow front' tractors whose front wheels can usually turn much more sharply.

Also helps turn with a wide front end like yours has in a variety of conditions, like on hills, or when on wet grass, or with a heavy load on the rear.

Adjust both sides to evenness if you latch (who doesn't as default?) the brakes.

Most everyone, so far as I know. I've been driving tractors for about 65 years and have never heard of anyone leaving the brakes locked until I read a few people say that here. I use the brakes individually all the time, and only lock them when I want both to be engaged when the parking brake is set, or maybe when I take it on the road.

Terry

 

[son of man]

Son of man, these folks are doing a great job offering written advice but you, an inexperienced operator, are working with some equipment that can injure or kill in 100 different ways if not used safely. Getting some on-the-scene instruction from someone who knows tractors, mentioned earlier, is highly recomended.

I understand this is not a toy. I've spent some very valuable time over in the safety forum and go back there periodically to stay grounded. I also have a couple of friends with tractors who I ask whenever I'm not sure about something from a safety aspect.

one of them showed me how he gets his tractor unstuck by chaining the back rim to a tree. however, whenever I tried it myself, I was scared the tractor would flip over backwards since the front tires raised off the ground. however, 3 different people assured me it wouldn't flip over with the bush hog attached. so whenever one of my friends came over, I followed thru (against my reservations). Sure enough, the tractor came out safely.

 

[son of man]

Grandad makes an excellent point. If you don't know how to drive a manual, I'd guess you probably also aren't aware of a 100 different ways the tractor (and another 100 ways the bush hog behind it! ) can kill or injure. Please recognize you are a danger to yourself and all those around. Even the best, most experienced operator doesn't always see the 101'st way coming.
On the other hand, we all had to learn somewhere. Follow his advice.

I imagine there are many things I don't know. therefore, I try to take it slow, use good judgment and ask many questions!

 

[son of man]

A picture is worth a thousand words. You, an experienced operator and your tractor all together for a couple of hours would be worth even more. If the previous owner is nearby, is there a chance you could get him to come help you?

The article on pto safety linked below is a little off topic but would be worth reading.

Power Take-Off Safety | TractorByNet.com ? Compact Tractor Resource

my wife grew up on a farm so she knows way more than I do about tractors. but those 'ol glory days are pretty much behind her. lol the previous owner is nearby but I don't really know him like that. I only met him thru a local dealer who helped him sell it. he gave me some pointers concerning the bush hog. the rest has been on the job training.

FYI - anything relating to my safety is on topic as far as i'm concerned. thanks for the article! I wasn't aware of any of that. it was definitely a good read. I printed it out so I can refer back to it again.

 

[son of man]

Ain't nothing wrong with keeping them locked...different preferences and needs...in my case I've been riding on & driving tractors for about 45 years and never had the brakes locked.

- Hitting both with 1 foot has never been a problem, but I can see additional safety advantage for locking them for high speed travel.
Unlocked :
- Obvious turning advantage, if required.
- A very quick way to avoid getting stuck, keep momentum and get the tire with traction to propel by braking only the other tire that is slipping when you can't or don't want to slam in the differential lock.

i'm gonna have to remember that single brake tip. It seems like it's easier to get stuck the slower you travel b/c there is less momentum. I think I was in low gear both times I got stuck. my differential lock has come in handy a couple of times.

 

[son of man]

Neutral is just the condition of not being on one of the gears. You are always in neutral as you shift between gears.

As of "using" neutral, you do that when you want to let out the clutch with the engine running when you don't want apply power to the wheels. Like when you are stopped and want to pause for a minute with the engine running. But be aware that unlike Park in an automatic, nothing is keeping the tractor from moving. So unless the spot is dead level, you need to keep the brakes applied.

It's clear you don't understand how your machine works. As others have said, you really need some hands-on coaching from someone who knows how to operate a tractor like yours. It's a dangerous machine, especially with a rotary cutter, and used improperly you can seriously injure or kill yourself or others.

Terry

My tractor has a separate starting position and a parking brake so I don't understand why I would ever leave it in between gears in 'neutral' with my foot off the clutch?

 

[TerryR]

My tractor has a separate starting position and a parking brake so I don't understand why I would ever leave it in between gears in 'neutral' with my foot off the clutch?

I don't understand "separate starting position."

You leave it in neutral when you are stopped with your foot off the clutch because if you don't it will either start moving or kill the engine. Setting the parking brake does not remove power to the wheels.

Terry

 

[CobyRupert]

My tractor has a separate starting position and a parking brake so I don't understand why I would ever leave it in between gears in 'neutral' with my foot off the clutch?

So that you can be stopped without depending on your foot staying on the clutch.

Two reasons for this:
- Less wear on clutch (throw out bearing) if your not sitting there for an extended period of time with the clutch pushed in.
- Safety: Objects, animals or people around you don't depend on your foot not slipping off the clutch and the tractor suddenly moving.

 

[son of man]

If your transmission is not synchronized (JD 'collar shift', etc) you must come to a complete stop, but also wait for a few seconds before shifting and let the gears stop spinning to avoid the grinding sound.

Using one brake to help turn works best with 'narrow front' tractors whose front wheels can usually turn much more sharply. Differential lock (find yours ir you have it) can help you get unstuck, but applying brake to a spinning wheel can help there, and being in the lowest gear may be required since stopping one wheel will make the other turn twice as fast. Adjust both sides to evenness if you latch (who doesn't as default?) the brakes.

btw, about that pond ... mowing/hogging too close to the water limits wildlife activity that contributes to a balanced eco-system. Those who do so may have to feed fish to augment a narrow food chain and maintain a thriving population. One may have to choose between clear ground and shoreling/'buffer' maintenance. Size/depth of pond and access has much to do with how much of each you decide on to 'balance' the two. (I mow 12 of >2000 ft of shoreline. Managing the rest for wildlife cover is a complete job by itself... tho' more knowledge/experience than work after a while) tog

I'll try to make sure I wait a bit before changing gears. I practically never use high gear so unlatching the brakes seem more beneficial for my needs. I don't know if we have any fish in the pond I recently cleared? It's full of algae so I haven't yet tried to stock it. I know it has turtles. We have another pond in the back of our property that is still overgrown. I know for a fact it doesn't have any fish b/c it's currently dried up. lol

 

[bcp]

My tractor has a separate starting position and a parking brake so I don't understand why I would ever leave it in between gears in 'neutral' with my foot off the clutch?

If the engine can run, foot off the clutch, without the tractor moving, it is in neutral.

Bruce

 

[Loadstar]

I have a feeling this thing hates life and isn't longed for this world.

 

[son of man]

A simplified animated diagram here shows what a clutch does.

Common Problems and Other Types of Clutches - HowStuffWorks
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This represents the fluid coupling (torque converter) between engine and automatic transmission.

View attachment 437295
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A short article compares the two coupling system here.

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/webproj...aa0/uploads/4/3/3/0/43300233/1981583_orig.jpg
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And there were combinations of the two systems in use for a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_Drive
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Bruce

this is the type of info I was looking for concerning possible damage to the clutch. however, I don't understand what they mean by a driver who 'slips the clutch alot.' My wife gets on me for 'riding the brakes' when I drive our truck. however, I don't really understand what she's talking about either?

 

[son of man]

..please get lessons, but most importantly, please, please, please, post pictures if, (I mean) when, you put the tractor in the pond. :laughing:

yeah, I've learned the TBN forum is a very visually-motivated crowd. I got blasted for starting a stuck tractor thread without posting pics. lol

 

[Loadstar]

Leave your foot COMPLETELY off of the clutch unless your using it. As for slipping it that's well something you get a feel for. You try not to drag out actions on the clutch.

 

[the old grind]

I'll try to make sure I wait a bit before changing gears...

...With tractor not moving, a pause with the clutch depressed, and the shifter between positions before going into the next one. The 'S' shift position may include a parking brake and an additional clutch/safety/starting switch for starting without clutching ... a nice thing to have.

.. I don't know if we have any fish in the pond I recently cleared? It's full of algae so I haven't yet tried to stock it. I know it has turtles. We have another pond in the back of our property that is still overgrown. I know for a fact it doesn't have any fish b/c it's currently dried up. lol

Wildlife will happen on its own as o'all size and depth allow. It may be worth adding barley-straw bales to minimize algae once cleared, but that can be pricey and is not a permanent fix. (One pond is enough to take care of) The 'back' pond that dries up may just become something you brush-hog in the dry season, but could be a good spot for reptile reproduction in Spring if you open it up.

You'll know when the 'front' pond is at full development if/when nutria move in. (up here its muskrats if you have/like cattails etc for wildlife habitat/cover) No recipes for them to offer, but if not trapped or shot they would make it their pond until banks are rutted/collapsed and vegetation eaten out. That said, don't wish for issues that haven't happened, just ask us when they do.

 

[son of man]

I don't understand "separate starting position."

You leave it in neutral when you are stopped with your foot off the clutch because if you don't it will either start moving or kill the engine. Setting the parking brake does not remove power to the wheels.

Terry

I posted a diagram of my gears several pages back.
R 1 3
S 2 4
the starting position is the only position in which I can start my tractor. Incidentally, this is the gear I use whenever I want to pause for a moment and take my foot off the clutch. so I don't understand any real world scenario where I would use 'neutral'?

 

[jimmysisson]

Possibly your clutch needs adjusting, also.
It sounds like the main issue here is you're used to driving an automatic transmission vehicle, where once you place the shift in Drive (or R) the shift stays there, and you use the brake to stop and the accelerator pedal to go. With a tractor you're (usually) to depress the clutch, choose a gear you want to be in, set the throttle lever to appropriate engine RPMs, then let the clutch pedal out to engage the drive to the wheels. Let's say you choose 3rd gear, 1500 RPM throttle, let the clutch out. When you want to slow down but stay in gear, let's say if you're on the road, you reduce the RPMs.
If you're working the machine and need to stop temporarily, let's say to pause brush-hogging to open a gate, you'd reduce the engine speed to low idle, push down the clutch, shut down the PTO, then put the shift lever in neutral, let out the clutch, set the park brake, and go open the gate, staying away from the rear of the tractor. Once through the gate, push down the clutch, engage the PTO, shift to the gear you want, increase the engine speed to the sweet spot, then let the clutch out and mow.
When you want to change gears, you push in the clutch, then step on (both) brakes, wait until you stop rolling, change to the gear you want, then let the clutch out again. Most gear tractors are shifted only when stopped, with clutch down. Normally you want the engine to operate in its comfortable power range, so you don't change the RPMs. In a shift car, you're moving much faster than a tractor, so it's harder to coordinate gas pedal and clutch. In a tractor, the clutch pedal is more like an on-off switch: you let it out relatively quickly, like over the count of one-mississippi (or one-louisiana).
You must push in the clutch pedal to slow or stop every time, as you need to disengage the engine from the tires.
So many have tried different ways to explain this to you: too many words! This is hard stuff to get in writing, but pretty easy to have someone show you. I think it would be as many have suggested your best plan to get someone to show you how to run your machine. Should take only a half hour or so, then you'll get the hang of it. You need to get this info for safety, and to be sure you're not wearing out the clutch or brakes by having learned bad habits.
Best luck, Jim

 

[ozley]

..please get lessons, but most importantly, please, please, please, post pictures if, (I mean) when, you put the tractor in the pond. :laughing:

I think he has been close by one of his pictures.

 

[RaydaKub]

this is the type of info I was looking for concerning possible damage to the clutch. however, I don't understand what they mean by a driver who 'slips the clutch alot.' My wife gets on me for 'riding the brakes' when I drive our truck. however, I don't really understand what she's talking about either?

Slipping the clutch means having it partially engaged so it kinda - sorta keeps you moving but at a reduced rate with reduced power. As I said earlier, a gear - driven tractor (or any vehicle) has a fixed ratio of engine rpm to wheel rpm for any given gear that you are in. If you know you tractor will do 5mph in 2nd gear at 2000 rpm, and you measure the speed to only be 3 mph, you are either spinning the wheels or using the clutch to not transmit full power to the wheels. This will shorten the life of your clutch a LOT.

Riding the brakes means you have a foot on the pedal at all times. Usually you see this with some older people who think their emergency reaction time is slower than it used to be, so they keep their left foot on the brake and right foot on the gas. Invariably their leg gets tired and you see the car going down the road with the brake lights on solid. If the light is on, there is probably some braking force also being applied, thereby wearing the brake pads for no reason, generating more heat, and causing drag on the car so milage drops as well.

If you are doing either of these, STOP IT!

 

[son of man]

If the engine can run, foot off the clutch, without the tractor moving, it is in neutral.

Bruce

So I guess the 'starting position' on my MF is other people's 'neutral'...