Using clutch as a brake?

   / Using clutch as a brake?
  • Thread Starter
#81  
Leave your foot COMPLETELY off of the clutch unless your using it. As for slipping it that's well something you get a feel for. You try not to drag out actions on the clutch.
Is that the same thing as slowly releasing the clutch to prevent the tractor from jerking into motion? or are you saying that when I push the clutch, I should do it as quickly as possible instead of easing it down slowly?
 
   / Using clutch as a brake? #83  
I posted a diagram of my gears several pages back.
R 1 3
S 2 4
the starting position is the only position in which I can start my tractor. Incidentally, this is the gear I use whenever I want to pause for a moment and take my foot off the clutch. so I don't understand any real world scenario where I would use 'neutral'?

Looks like S is a fancy name for neutral. Also a reminder that you have to have it in neutral to start - that's the same on my JD 870 with is about the same vintage, except JD doesn't label it as such.

Terry
 
   / Using clutch as a brake? #84  
So I guess the 'starting position' on my MF is other people's 'neutral'...

Neutral on your car may have a letter. Neutral on a tractor or any geared vehicle is anywhere in the shift pattern that doesn't have a letter or number. When you come out of Start and head for Reverse you should feel it click out of one. You should also feel it click into Reverse. In between those clicks is neutral.
 
   / Using clutch as a brake?
  • Thread Starter
#85  
...With tractor not moving, a pause with the clutch depressed, and the shifter between positions before going into the next one. The 'S' shift position may include a parking brake and an additional clutch/safety/starting switch for starting without clutching ... a nice thing to have.



Wildlife will happen on its own as o'all size and depth allow. It may be worth adding barley-straw bales to minimize algae once cleared, but that can be pricey and is not a permanent fix. (One pond is enough to take care of) The 'back' pond that dries up may just become something you brush-hog in the dry season, but could be a good spot for reptile reproduction in Spring if you open it up.

You'll know when the 'front' pond is at full development if/when nutria move in. :D (up here its muskrats if you have/like cattails etc for wildlife habitat/cover) No recipes for them to offer, but if not trapped or shot they would make it their pond until banks are rutted/collapsed and vegetation eaten out. That said, don't wish for issues that haven't happened, just ask us when they do. :)
I think I got it :) my S position has a safety/starting switch but the parking brake is separate. I need to borrow a friend's long reach chain saw to finish up around the front pond. i'm definitely going to need some lessons before tackling that task. however, I have a little hornet issue to deal with first. the currently score is hornets 1 me 0. lol my pastor works in the chemistry field and supposedly has something to initially treat the algae. God-willing, we'll see what happens afterwards... i'm not worried about the other pond.
 
   / Using clutch as a brake? #86  
A few rules of thumb for normal clutch operation. Getting unstuck is not normal for these points.
-never ride the clutch (or any vehicles brakes) because you will prematurely wear it out
-when pushing in the clutch pedal do it rather quickly not slowly
-when releasing the clutch pedal you should do it slowly enough so it is not abrupt but fast enough as to not cause extra wear. A clutch job is not cheap.

Here's a few videos to check out on how a clutch works, hopefully these will help you understand the points above. Cars are very similar to tractors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqF-aBtTBnY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfjGohWy-OU

Someone mentioned not seeing why someone would keep the brakes locked together. I mainly use my tractor for loader work and my yard is very hilly. My brakes are always locked together and the tractor is always in 4 wheel drive. Otherwise I may end up going down a hill sideways. I really have no use for brake steering at this point.
 
   / Using clutch as a brake?
  • Thread Starter
#87  
Possibly your clutch needs adjusting, also.
It sounds like the main issue here is you're used to driving an automatic transmission vehicle, where once you place the shift in Drive (or R) the shift stays there, and you use the brake to stop and the accelerator pedal to go. With a tractor you're (usually) to depress the clutch, choose a gear you want to be in, set the throttle lever to appropriate engine RPMs, then let the clutch pedal out to engage the drive to the wheels. Let's say you choose 3rd gear, 1500 RPM throttle, let the clutch out. When you want to slow down but stay in gear, let's say if you're on the road, you reduce the RPMs.
If you're working the machine and need to stop temporarily, let's say to pause brush-hogging to open a gate, you'd reduce the engine speed to low idle, push down the clutch, shut down the PTO, then put the shift lever in neutral, let out the clutch, set the park brake, and go open the gate, staying away from the rear of the tractor. Once through the gate, push down the clutch, engage the PTO, shift to the gear you want, increase the engine speed to the sweet spot, then let the clutch out and mow.
When you want to change gears, you push in the clutch, then step on (both) brakes, wait until you stop rolling, change to the gear you want, then let the clutch out again. Most gear tractors are shifted only when stopped, with clutch down. Normally you want the engine to operate in its comfortable power range, so you don't change the RPMs. In a shift car, you're moving much faster than a tractor, so it's harder to coordinate gas pedal and clutch. In a tractor, the clutch pedal is more like an on-off switch: you let it out relatively quickly, like over the count of one-mississippi (or one-louisiana).
You must push in the clutch pedal to slow or stop every time, as you need to disengage the engine from the tires.
So many have tried different ways to explain this to you: too many words! This is hard stuff to get in writing, but pretty easy to have someone show you. I think it would be as many have suggested your best plan to get someone to show you how to run your machine. Should take only a half hour or so, then you'll get the hang of it. You need to get this info for safety, and to be sure you're not wearing out the clutch or brakes by having learned bad habits.
Best luck, Jim
I think I have been operating it correctly for the most part. It didn't take long to realize the brakes on my tractor are used differently than my automatic. however, I second guessed myself b/c I didn't want to damage the clutch. I think you have to split the whole tractor to replace it?

I understand the concept of lowering the throttle to reduce the speed of any given gear. I've just never had to do so since I typically operate the tractor fairly slowly. I'm sure you can guess how long it takes to bush hog 4 acres in low gear. lol

I usually raise the rpms to pto level before placing the tractor into a forward/reverse gear. however, the initial 'jerk' of going into motion in high gear is always a little scary. is it alright to set the throttle low, release the clutch to start moving and then slowly increase the throttle to pick up speed?
 
   / Using clutch as a brake? #88  
Yes it's ok to lower rpms prior to engaging. If you look in my profile or search I have a thread titled "Mf 263" I split and installed a clutch in my 263 Massey
 
   / Using clutch as a brake? #89  
I think you have to split the whole tractor to replace it?

I understand the concept of lowering the throttle to reduce the speed of any given gear. I've just never had to do so since I typically operate the tractor fairly slowly. I'm sure you can guess how long it takes to bush hog 4 acres in low gear. lol

I usually raise the rpms to pto level before placing the tractor into a forward/reverse gear. however, the initial 'jerk' of going into motion in high gear is always a little scary. is it alright to set the throttle low, release the clutch to start moving and then slowly increase the throttle to pick up speed?
Yep and splitting the tractor is not fun. I bet it takes a long time to mow in low. To stop the jerkiness of using a higher gear just let the clutch out a bit slower. It's not a race you just don't want it to take 30 seconds to let it out. You can feel when it starts to engage, the motor starts to drag, let it out a bit slower when you hit that stage and it won't jerk as much. Once you start moving then you can let it out quicker for the rest of the way.
 
   / Using clutch as a brake? #91  
You guys are getting Trolled... :rolleyes:

Yep, that's what I guessed back in post #31. Showed hand with the "I don't understand what my wife means when she says I ride the brakes" was too far over the top.
I guess it's a good thing that there really aren't people this.....uhm......what's a polite word....?
 
   / Using clutch as a brake? #92  
Showed hand with the "I don't understand what my wife means when she says I ride the brakes" was too far over the top.
I guess it's a good thing that there really aren't people this.....uhm......what's a polite word....?

Showed hand there and several other places, but if he just happened to be for real he very seriously needed some help. I am sure most if not all were skeptical from at least post #8.

At worst it was entertaining.
 
   / Using clutch as a brake? #93  
Interesting that he lurked for about a year at least. ... Then posted no clue.
 
   / Using clutch as a brake?
  • Thread Starter
#94  
I think he has been close by one of his pictures.
that was in the general vicinity of the other pond. even though that pond is dried up, some of the ground back there is still kind of moist. incidentally, the brush around there is still very thick/high. I may try to tackle it after I get everything else nice and low.
 
   / Using clutch as a brake?
  • Thread Starter
#95  
Slipping the clutch means having it partially engaged so it kinda - sorta keeps you moving but at a reduced rate with reduced power. As I said earlier, a gear - driven tractor (or any vehicle) has a fixed ratio of engine rpm to wheel rpm for any given gear that you are in. If you know you tractor will do 5mph in 2nd gear at 2000 rpm, and you measure the speed to only be 3 mph, you are either spinning the wheels or using the clutch to not transmit full power to the wheels. This will shorten the life of your clutch a LOT.

Riding the brakes means you have a foot on the pedal at all times. Usually you see this with some older people who think their emergency reaction time is slower than it used to be, so they keep their left foot on the brake and right foot on the gas. Invariably their leg gets tired and you see the car going down the road with the brake lights on solid. If the light is on, there is probably some braking force also being applied, thereby wearing the brake pads for no reason, generating more heat, and causing drag on the car so milage drops as well.

If you are doing either of these, STOP IT!
I don't do either of those things. I just use 1 foot to accelerate/brake in my truck. I usually leave my foot rested on the accelerator even if I'm not actually pressing it. however, if I see a red light way down the road and know I will have to stop, I may begin gently applying the brake a good ways off instead of waiting until I get closer to slow down more rapidly. could that be considered riding the brakes?
 
   / Using clutch as a brake?
  • Thread Starter
#96  
It appears to be so.



Are you scared to ask her?:D
nah lol. I did but either she didn't do a very good job of explaining it or I didn't understand what she was talking about?
 
   / Using clutch as a brake?
  • Thread Starter
#97  
A few rules of thumb for normal clutch operation. Getting unstuck is not normal for these points.
-never ride the clutch (or any vehicles brakes) because you will prematurely wear it out
-when pushing in the clutch pedal do it rather quickly not slowly
-when releasing the clutch pedal you should do it slowly enough so it is not abrupt but fast enough as to not cause extra wear. A clutch job is not cheap.

Here's a few videos to check out on how a clutch works, hopefully these will help you understand the points above. Cars are very similar to tractors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqF-aBtTBnY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfjGohWy-OU

Someone mentioned not seeing why someone would keep the brakes locked together. I mainly use my tractor for loader work and my yard is very hilly. My brakes are always locked together and the tractor is always in 4 wheel drive. Otherwise I may end up going down a hill sideways. I really have no use for brake steering at this point.
thanks! I've heard of clutches and how people needed to get them repaired all my life but never knew what they actually did. these 2 videos did a good job of explaining how they work.
 
   / Using clutch as a brake?
  • Thread Starter
#98  
Yes it's ok to lower rpms prior to engaging. If you look in my profile or search I have a thread titled "Mf 263" I split and installed a clutch in my 263 Massey
it seems like that should lessen the initial jerk since it won't start moving as quick. that's a nice looking tractor! was the dealer charging the initial owner 2k for the clutch job or did you negotiate the price down a little?
 
   / Using clutch as a brake?
  • Thread Starter
#99  
Yep and splitting the tractor is not fun. I bet it takes a long time to mow in low. To stop the jerkiness of using a higher gear just let the clutch out a bit slower. It's not a race you just don't want it to take 30 seconds to let it out. You can feel when it starts to engage, the motor starts to drag, let it out a bit slower when you hit that stage and it won't jerk as much. Once you start moving then you can let it out quicker for the rest of the way.
I'll try to release it with a little more finesse and see if it makes a difference.
 
   / Using clutch as a brake? #100  
Showed hand there and several other places, but if he just happened to be for real he very seriously needed some help. I am sure most if not all were skeptical from at least post #8.

At worst it was entertaining.

I agree I've been skeptical from the beginning but it's hard to tell..what's second nature to some is foreign to others. He's either very clueless and in need of some one one training or he's being a jack leg wasting people's time when they could be helping someone that's really needing help. I reckon in the end it doesn't matter because for the most part it has been entertaining
 

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