Using Sick Leave before company is sold?

[davesl708]

I think rtimgray made a good point... when you have a good relationship history with your supervisor/boss they know and appreciate your contributions to the business... having the same one for 23 years that also happened to be one of the founders would seem to be unusual in today's business world.

It's been almost 2 years without an on site CEO or Administrator... leaving just two of us taking care of business and for the most part doing a darn fine job.

Certainly has changed my job... if there is broken glass in the parking lot I get the call to sweep it up... if we need a $70,000 piece of equipment or contract negotiation... it is my signature on the purchase order... I just won a successful half million dollar over 10 years property tax appeal six months in the making...

In one way it is very much an opportunity to step up and shine... just not sure if it will be valued/recognized when all is said and done.

Also... the question of all the other department/managers leaving without so much as a word is noticed by those still here.

One observation to add... it has taken as many as 3 people to do the job after a key worker leaves... at least in the beginning... last year one manager left and we now have two full time people doing that job... each paid about 60% of what the manager was getting... so while the job is getting done... the cost to the company is at least 30% higher when it is all said and done.

I hope all the best for you and your coworker. It has not been my experience with buyouts to have a good ending.
I used to work for the now defunct Kerr McGee Co. Uncovered a fraud that had gone undetected by the previous internal auditors and the CPA firm. The company had been loosing >$1.5 million per year to a maintenance/project contractor at one of the plants. The new owners said thank you very much. Three months later they said they were moving the headquarters to Houston and the office was full.

 

[Thomas]

Company said you earn it..take it or loose it.. good chance new company will say sorry,can you get some insight from the top brass.

 

[ultrarunner]

The only people that know for sure are not talking...

We are losing about 1 employee a week since Christmas.

Chinese proverb says May you live in interesting times...

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I worked at a place that forced the old timers to retire, so they could be replaced with younger cheaper labor. Some knowledge can't be captured well on paper. New ones look more than twice as long to get things done, they had to learn everything.

 

[davesl708]

I worked at a place that forced the old timers to retire, so they could be replaced with younger cheaper labor. Some knowledge can't be captured well on paper. New ones look more than twice as long to get things done, they had to learn everything.

I assisted an attorney in a similar case against a large cell phone provider. The company wanted to cut cost by getting rid of the "old folks" who had high salaries. At the end of the game the cell provider had to write a check for $54 million.
Make note to self. Don't plan an illegal act using emails to communicate.

 

[hawkeye08]

I had to spend a few days in Calif last week training some folks new to the company. They are new college hires, since they recently graduated from college. The average age in the room (excluding myself and a couple of managers) was 25. They expect smartphone apps and system tools to do everything for them. The problem many companies have is that they have a large percentage of their workforce over 50 yrs old. They have to bring in younger workers or risk not being able to survive if a large group decides to retire..

I am at the point where I still need to work and would not mind finding a local job that pays benefits (need health insurance for wife and I still), along with some interesting work. Wife and I are looking forward to having more time to spend with grand kids and do some more camping (with travel trailer)..

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

The company for which I work has been bought and sold a few times, and each time, the policies change somewhat. Early on, there was no sick leave. Then there was sick leave, but only for when the employee was sick. Then the sick leave became viable for things such as sick dependents, then it morphed into PTO, then back to sick leave, etc.

Over the course of the years, there has always been a cap on how much sick leave/PTO/Vacation/etc. time could be accumulated. For the most part, sick leave was not allowed to be carried over. I have worked with a great number of great people, and many of them are much like the OP - worked for 20 plus years and never used sick leave. Early in my career, I used sick leave if I was sick, then if the kids were sick, etc. When we started using PTO, it didn't matter what you were doing - sick or well - you just didn't have to come to work. Currently, we are back to having separate "Occassional Leave Days" and vacation time, with limited carryover of each.

I use all of my time every year.

Why? I became jaded to the corporate mandates very, very early. At my location, at least, we have yet to give out the very first award for "Working While Sick". Personally, I rarely get sick. It doesn't bother me if someone else comes to work sick, but I'm not admiring their dedication either.

"Back in the Day" of family-owned businesses, personal sacrifice probably was noticed and potentially rewarded. In the business world today, with interchangeable management components, there's a good chance that my boss today won't be there in a couple of years and he wouldn't remember how many days I missed and how many I didn't.

I'm already of the assumption that I'm probably going to have to be gainfully employed in some capacity until I'm at least 70 - at least that's what I tell myself. We already own our property and home free and clear (except for taxes, of course), are generally healthy and live well but not lavishly. However, I tend to be a bit of a negaholic about things, and beyond my wife, I don't trust anyone about anything (especially coworkers!). I have also witnessed many people work tirelessly year in/year out, chained to their jobs (which is what I feel I am interpreting from the OP), planning to enjoy their retirement, only to have the rug pulled out from under them due to changes in their employer or their health.

I try to live every day as a good day, and not put off rewarding myself until retirement. If I can sneak out 15 minutes early (I'm salaried, so I'm not on the clock anyway), then I do. I'm an early riser, and generally spend 9-10 hours per day at work. Due to the nature of my job, sometimes I work weekends and holidays to complete projects while the manufacturing plant is down. However, if I do that, I take off some "comp time" - informally - to make up for it.

This may be coming across as though I am a slacker, but I don't feel that I am. I give my time and talents to the company in exchange for payment, and that is likely where my dedication to them, and theirs to me, ends. I don't shirk my responsibilities, but I know that giving more of myself will not result in any better rewards.

In the end, the decision rests, as others have said, with whatever you can personally deal with, morally and ethically. If you feel that taking the time off is immoral and unjustified, then ride it out to the end with that, and sleep well at night. Or, start taking time off and tell yourself that you are overdue for it.

I work in a facility that (more or less) operates 24/7/365. We have had many folks that are like the OP - integral to the operation, on call when they are not here, etc. Irreplaceable, or so they think. I've seen dozens of "irreplaceable" people come and go, sometimes of their own accord, sometimes otherwise. Does it cause a temporary hardship? Of course. But the business moves on. I feel that being so dedicated to a company, and being so important to it, can be a bit of a martyr complex, but that is up to the individual how much they will allow for a company to intrude upon their personal life.

Some of my favorite memories with my children and wife have been when I've taken the day off to use up accumulated time for the year. Those that let their time go to waste got neither compensation nor prizes.

Over the years, I've mowed a lot of cemeteries. I have yet to trim around a tombstone that reads "I Wish I Spent More Time At Work."

Sorry about the dissertation. Didn't really think that I had that much to say, but it is a current topic at my workplace, due to a recent change in ownership, so this subject is very much at hand in my personal life. In the end, make whatever decision suits you best, and I wish you well.

Good luck and take care.

Great post. We get 40 hours of "sick leave" a year, no carry over. If I'm running fever, or vomiting, I don't go to work.
I'm the last Mohican standing in our machine shop, which is an appendage of our scientific research and development business. If I don't go to work, the jobs will be waiting to be done when I get back. No one does them for me. My gripe is that my boss that quit almost 3 years ago, was making $10K more a year than me. Now the onus is on me to make EVERYTHING and have the responsibility of it. After nearly leaving last year, they finally gave me a $3K bump ( I wanted at least $5K). But it ain't happening due to the top echelon of management skimming all the cream off of the budget in the form of bonuses. The benefits are horrible. They don't pay anything towards health insurance for my family, but they "offer" it so that they can skate by the governments req's...

The moral.....Mamma, don't let your babies grow up to be in manufacturing.

I believe I left 1 hour on the docket of last year's sick leave.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I started out at my current company over 12 yrs ago with unlimited sick days, but they were not accrued. If you were sick, you used sick time, but you didn' t earn it or bank it. Of course some abused the system, so the company removed sick time, and gave everyone 3 more paid leave days that was to be used however you want, but you now used your paid leave when off sick. The next year or so they removed 2 days of paid leave because they did an audit and determined that people were not using enough of their paid leave each year, so they determined we had too much. This year, because of some recent law changes, they took away 5 of our accrued paid days off and it's now given up front, to be used however you want to use it, sick or whatever.

Most places with sick leave allow you to take it for yourself, or to support a family member who is sick. not everyone has the rule it's only if you are sick.

I took a "sick day" friday. Went to work, had one of those fairly rare "take this job and shove it" kind of events happen, told the boss I was going to take the rest of the day off and left. Problem was not with my boss, but he understood the situation. Got a lot of work done at home, some of which involved hitting nails with a hammer. Was a good day to swing a hammer. Unfortunately I'm not quite in the actual "take this job and shove it" state, but I have been discussing it in the retirement thread. I am eligible for early retirement.

They give you sick days for a reason, it's not always when you are throwing up. Sometimes you need one for your mental health.

edit, just saw kyles repost of rtimgray. That was very well said.

 

[EddieWalker]

Is this Eden Hospital? I thought they got bought out a few years ago and was something else now. Is the new hospital being bought out or are they closing down?

When I worked for Airborne, they did everything possible to lower the value of their stock so they could be bought out by DHL. We all saw it coming for several years, and that was the catalyst for me to quit and move to Texas. The guys who stayed and where able to keep their jobs make half of what they used to before the buyout. I wanted to leave on my own terms and to be able to leave when it was best for me, not when I was forced to, or if I was to become dependent on that job. I've kept in touch with enough of those guys to see it happen to them.

Here in Tyler, we have several big hospitals, and they are all struggling. The one my wife used to work for is probably the next one to fail if nothing is done about the number of nurses that are leaving and their inability to staff the floors. Rumor has it that those in top are just buying time until they retire, and hiring consultants to play games that drive away the employees until they retire. The other big one was just bought out and they are spending like crazy, but nobody that I know in upper management feels safe, or that they have a future there.

Seems like the future of health care is going away from big hospitals and towards clinics and private practice. There isn't any money in it any more since the government made all the changes.

 

[tcreeley]

My son who teaches rarely used his sick time and had accumulated a fair amount. At the start of the school year he became too ill to return to work and has been out on sick leave. He has just had some major neck surgery at the base of his skull (decompression) and will not return until next fall. He moved back home in August and has difficulty with anything more than a 1/4 cup of coffee (paper cup). He is on the mend now. His school had a sick bank that he had participated in, in addition to his regular sick days. The result is that he has had his salary covered while he has been out. They like him and want him back. Sicktime is great and should be used wisely- not for the fun of it. He still has his life ahead of him. - Schools in our area will allow you to accumulate 120 sick days. but anything over that shows up in your paycheck.

 

[dmccarty]

...
You may have covered this already ur, but if not, go see a labour (labor ) specialized lawyer re. your potential severance. While the USA has always been known as litigious, the reality today is that Canada is not far behind....

Long way of saying - esp. considering how long you've been there.... if it comes up, don't sign anything without feedback and approval from a competent labour lawyer. These things usually get presented (late-nite-infomercial voice...) as Limited Time Offer, Must Sign in 48 Hours ! , so just wanted to light this issue up now....

Rgds, D.

Surprised it took four pages for some to mention what Dave did. :laughing: Talk to a lawyer and ask some questions. I kinda think you are screwed but you won't know until you dig a bit.

Ultra, you are loyal and responsible to the company. In the past, some companies where run by people who were loyal to their employees and being loyal to the company was a good thing. While I know of some companies where loyalty is a two way street, now a days it seems like upper management want employee loyalty but the suits do nothing to earn said loyalty. There is a point where one has to say no and not be one for the 600 hundred riding into the Valley of Death...

Later,
Dan

 

[ultrarunner]

It has definitely changed... in part because the Doctors with controlling interest have said it is all about returns... no more about building and maintaining a center of excellence... where we had to be better...

Not to get too political... the Affordable Healthcare Act is having an impact... and physicians are jumping ship.

Maybe 20% of the staff is out right now... orthopedic surgery for most... hand and knee in large part.

One just returned from carpel tunnel... she proudly announced she has used all the time due her... a good worker who decided now is better than waiting.

 

[tlj87]

I don't understand the pride associated in never using any sick time. We get 5 days per year, which carry over from year to year, however you can't "cash them out" at the end. We also get 5 days per year of sick time with doctors excuse which can't be used until all other time has been used.

If you use less than 3 sick days per year, you get an additional vacation day the following year.

While I've never used all of the days I've been allocated, I usually use a few each year for various doc. appts. or actually sickness.

For instance, every two years or so I have a colonoscopy to monitor Crohns. You can't work while you are prepping or the day of the procedure, so I use sick time. This week, I had an "unscheduled" dental appt, followed by an orthodontist appt. I took a 2 hours on two days for these since they aren't open in the evenings.

Wife is pregnant with our first and had some tests done at the hospital (blood work, ultrasound). For that, I used what my employer calls "family emergency" time which is for things like caring for a spouse or child, dealing with frozen pipes at home, etc.

When our child arrives in July, I plan on using 10 of my 20 allocated vacation days.

I feel that I do not abuse our allocated leave time, but I do use it.

Reading some of these other posts kind of make me feel guilty, but I don't know how else I would deal with these things?

I am young and probably stupid at age 28 and have been with my company for 6 years.

 

[newbury]

Exactly... and I suppose this is the reason for the scramble to use sick time... those that have been through these types of things before are the most vocal...

For me it's about 25k in built up sick leave.

All of my civil service friends were paid out sick leave and some had well over a year on the books...

With all the changes... people are now taking sick leave to care for family members... so this opens up a lot of avenues... especially with a parent that has Alzheimer...

This is a sensitive topic for me but -
I spent 37 years working for the Army. Sick leave by professionals was to be used for yours or your families health. Taking a day off for "mental health" was frowned upon. About 10 years before I retired I had a back surgery event, sucked up about a month of sick leave. Three years later, again, next vertebrae up, again a month plus. Three years - again. Now by this time I had accrued well more than 2,000 hours of sick leave, even after the surgeries.
BUT due to a slight change in management the supervisor 2 levels up thought I was gold-bricking and started talking about seeing if he could dismiss me or force me to retire. This got me royally aggravated. Due to continuing pain while healing I was still on meds but I got myself driven in and basically laid around at the office. I recovered fully in about a month and went back on my regular schedule of traveling all over the country teaching soldiers and getting awards for my performance. But that got me angered enough at management to feel they no longer deserved my loyalty.

When I retired I had about a year of sick leave which effectively increased my pension by about 2%.

To ultrarunnner - take the money and run, don't plan on loyalty to the new owners until they prove they deserve it.

 

[ultrarunner]

It's almost too late now...

In a few weeks it will be a done deal... the papers have already been signed with a 60 day phase in.

This means several last minute projects... all last week I opened at 5:45 am and closed at 6 pm and I expect this to be the norm...

One of the projects is building from scratch an entire parallel network with servers and fiber throughout and every desktop and 95% of the printers will be new... for security. the work is subject to operating the business and was scheduled for today also and cancelled last night... so I'm off to do some Dozer work

Do find it odd that nowhere in the plans is an office or workstation for me... raised the question and was told it has not been decided yet...

Not worried... just interesting to see how this all plays out...

 

[doxford jim]

I am afraid that I view "company loyalty" with a lot if scepticism. It is usually the workers loyalty that keeps companies operating at a good level - a lot of companies treat that with contempt.
My experiences of late have been that you are just a numbered employee to be used and abused.
I would take the money and run and do what you want - your life not theirs.
Few companies value their employees properly as money and profit (greed) seems to be their mantra.
Just my two cents.

 

[TomSeller]

I am afraid that I view "company loyalty" with a lot if scepticism. It is usually the workers loyalty that keeps companies operating at a good level - a lot of companies treat that with contempt.
My experiences of late have been that you are just a numbered employee to be used and abused.
I would take the money and run and do what you want - your life not theirs.
Few companies value their employees properly as money and profit (greed) seems to be their mantra.
Just my two cents.

There is a book by Michael Brown where his philosophy is

"Treat the Employee as #1 and the Customer as #2 and You Will Get Customers for Life"

Most companies will never subscribe to this.

 

[3930dave]

I don't understand the pride associated in never using any sick time.
I am young and probably stupid at age 28 and have been with my company for 6 years.

While individual attitudes can vary in any era, a lot of that pride is an echo of a distant time.....

For my father's generation, it was fairly common for people to get their first job and continue working there till they retired - including in the private sector. What goes around comes around.... many people valued that stability, so were more inclined to "play hurt", back when.

That social compact went out the window before you were born..... but we are pretty much still at What Goes Around, Comes Around,...... after constantly being Right-Sized, Outsourced, Downsized..... most people are going to grab whatever they can today, because they probably aren't going to be around tomorrow.

Govts have the ability to run huge ongoing deficits, so many young people I come across today want to work there - it's about the only place you'll still find massive levels of Benefits, Sick Leave payouts, etc. That deficit game works, at least up until a country hits the wall like Greece did recently.

I see nothing wrong with taking the time to deal with personal or family matters - if they are at all serious, they are going to intrude on your work performance sooner or later. A savvy Tech company I used to deal with had a concierge service for their employees - you weren't allowed to use that service for Work related work, but could utilize it for expediting pretty much any personal matter - they saw it as smart business.

Rgds, D.