UTV's and ATV's general discussion.

[Grumpycat]

Bull crap, I have seen first hand the reduction in range in cold weather.

Please elucidate.

What? Where? When?

Or did you just see it on TV?

What do you know of the battery in the vehicle cited in this thread?

You haven’t stated point blank the EV utility vehicle will have less than half the range in cold temperatures. Based on what evidence? You seem to believe such a statement can be made without evidence, that somehow everyone knows what you say to be true. You are upset that anyone dares challenge your statement.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

An electric UTV would be ideal for our usage, which is short drives only, but...

As I recall they don't like being charged when it's cold. Okay, that could be worked around, but I wouldn't want it parked in the barn. Not in general, and especially not when it's charging.

And it's a moot point anyway since there doesn't seem to be anything available with a heated cab and a 5' or so bed.

 

[John_Mc]

Thanks. Too bad they don’t say what type of lithium Ion batteries. I’m not interested in anything other than LFP for anything bigger than a power tool.

All the Polaris site says is Lithium Ion. Everything I've seen says that they are NMC batteries (Nickel-Managnese-Cobalt, a type of Lithium Ion battery). However, this is not from an official Polaris source.

LiFePo4 batteries weigh more than NMC batteries of the same capacity (typical LiFePo4 batteries are 130-150 Wh/kg. NMC batteries are 160-190 Wh/kg). This is probably one of the reasons why they have not been more widely adopted by EV manufacturers. Neither LiFePo nor NMC are great in extreme temperatures, though supposedly LiFePo4 can take higher temperatures than NMC. (not sure who wins out in the low temperature category.)

 

[John_Mc]

As I recall they don't like being charged when it's cold. Okay, that could be worked around, but I wouldn't want it parked in the barn. Not in general, and especially not when it's charging.

Most well designed EVs, including the Polaris Kinetic include a battery heater to warm the battery for charging when needed. The battery management system will not charge when they are too cold.

The Polaris EV Range FAQs note that for maximum range (and best battery lifetime) you should activate the battery heater for a few minutes before operation any time the temperature is below 50˚F. You do this by either turning on the key switch or plugging in the charger.

Another interesting bit of information on range from their FAQ:

Premium trim: Up to *45 miles

With the XP Kinetic Ultimate, you can achieve a range of up to *80 miles of light-duty use. Range can depend heavily on what you are doing, so here is a list of ranges you can expect while performing certain tasks.

Property Maintenance: 70-80 est. miles
Farming & Ranching: 60-80 est. miles
Hunting: 50-70 est. miles
Trail Riding: 40-60 est. miles

Without some additional description of what they mean by each of those activities, I don't find that table all that useful to get a specific estimate, but at least there is some indication of what something other than "light-duty use" will give for range.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Please elucidate.

What? Where? When?

Or did you just see it on TV?

What do you know of the battery in the vehicle cited in this thread?

You haven’t stated point blank the EV utility vehicle will have less than half the range in cold temperatures. Based on what evidence? You seem to believe such a statement can be made without evidence, that somehow everyone knows what you say to be true. You are upset that anyone dares challenge your statement.

Come on grumpy, batteries loose capacity when they are cold are you denying that?

• Lithium-Ion Batteries:
  • Lithium-ion batteries, commonly used in smartphones, laptops, and electric vehicles, can lose 20-40% of their capacity at freezing temperatures (0°C or 32°F).
  • At very low temperatures (-20°C or -4°F), the capacity loss can be even greater.
• Lead-Acid Batteries:
  • Lead-acid batteries, often used in cars, lose about 20% of their capacity at 32°F (0°C) and up to 50% at -22°F (-30°C).

 

[LouNY]

Please elucidate.

What? Where? When?

Or did you just see it on TV?

What do you know of the battery in the vehicle cited in this thread?

You haven’t stated point blank the EV utility vehicle will have less than half the range in cold temperatures. Based on what evidence? You seem to believe such a statement can be made without evidence, that somehow everyone knows what you say to be true. You are upset that anyone dares challenge your statement.

My wife's car is an electric, a 2025 Equinox EV. It is a decent car with good power and acceleration.
When the temperature dropped below 14F the "fuel" efficacy dropped from 3.2-3.6 miles per kwh to 1.2 - 1.6 kwh. I drove it yesterday in 32F and got 2.2-2.6 miles per kwh.

As I said the mileage range tanks when it gets cold out and it hasn't even been run in sub zero yet.

So yea I have seen the effects, pure and simple in normal service.

 

[John_Mc]

Come on grumpy, batteries loose capacity when they are cold are you denying that?

• Lithium-Ion Batteries:
  • Lithium-ion batteries, commonly used in smartphones, laptops, and electric vehicles, can lose 20-40% of their capacity at freezing temperatures (0°C or 32°F).
  • At very low temperatures (-20°C or -4°F), the capacity loss can be even greater.
• Lead-Acid Batteries:
  • Lead-acid batteries, often used in cars, lose about 20% of their capacity at 32°F (0°C) and up to 50% at -22°F (-30°C).

Our experience with my wife's Chevy bolt seems to agree with that. In the Winter, we get about 55-60% of the range we do in the Spring/Summer/Fall (assuming we are not using the AC). However, there are a couple more factors for us than just battery efficiency: running the heater sucks the range down significantly, and the switch to studded snow tires in the winter from the all-season, low rolling resistance tires we use the rest of the year also affects the range.

I have not tried to determine the difference between running at +/-20-25˚F and running at +/-0˚F. Since our temperatures tend to vary widely in the winter, there just is not a great opportunity to nail this down.

 

[Rockbadchild]

Our experience with my wife's Chevy bolt seems to agree with that. In the Winter, we get about 55-60% of the range we do in the Spring/Summer/Fall (assuming we are not using the AC). However, there are a couple more factors for us than just battery efficiency: running the heater sucks the range down significantly, and the switch to studded snow tires in the winter from the all-season, low rolling resistance tires we use the rest of the year also affects the range.

for sure ... I don't know why they don't put diesel heater in them, like cars from the 70's and 80's had....

 

[hayden]

Come on grumpy, batteries loose capacity when they are cold are you denying that?

• Lithium-Ion Batteries:
  • Lithium-ion batteries, commonly used in smartphones, laptops, and electric vehicles, can lose 20-40% of their capacity at freezing temperatures (0°C or 32°F).
  • At very low temperatures (-20°C or -4°F), the capacity loss can be even greater.
• Lead-Acid Batteries:
  • Lead-acid batteries, often used in cars, lose about 20% of their capacity at 32°F (0°C) and up to 50% at -22°F (-30°C).

That’s true, but I think the real range losses come from cab and battery heating. Now this machine is cab-less, still. I think grumpy is just living up to his screen name.

 

[Rockbadchild]

That’s true, but I think the real range losses come from cab and battery heating. Now this machine is cab-less, still. I think grumpy is just living up to his screen name.

Its exponential not linear it depends on what temperture we are talking about, and the specific battery but yes cab and battery heating are also a major component. At 0 degree C its marginal but -20 degree Celsius the lost is substantial.


its very technical but that's the study, it highlights that at -20°C, lithium-ion batteries experience a significant reduction in efficiency due to decreased ionic conductivity and slower electrochemical reactions. Capacity can drop as much as as 50% of the rated value depending on the specific battery design and materials.

Lithium-Ion Batteries under Low-Temperature Environment: Challenges and Prospects - PMC

Lithium-ion batteries (LIBs) are at the forefront of energy storage and highly demanded in consumer electronics due to their high energy density, long battery life, and great flexibility. However, LIBs usually suffer from obvious capacity reduction, ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov