Ventless propane fireplace, HOW does the air in line purge?

[ericinmich]

... people run their cars in the garage with the door shut to kill themselves.

Just a way off topic comment.

It's nearly (or is) impossible to kill ones self with the exhaust of a new vehicle in a garage. It can work with an older car, or 2 stroke, etc.

You've got a better chance of using up all the O2 in the air and leaving just CO2... but the garage better be air tight...

FYI, I work in engine controls for one of the Big 3 (2.5?)

 

[mahlers]

An easy way to prevent the gas line from filling with air in the summer is to simply install a valve at the inlet where your line connects to the propane tank. When you're ready to disconnect the gas tank, just shut off the valve and the lines will stay full of propane all summer long and you won't need to purge (assuming you've also shut off the safety valves at the heaters).

Here in California, the vent-free heaters are illegal - but if you installed them before the law was passed three or so years ago, you are grandfathered in - but you can never get any parts to fix it. I had purchased one of them right before the ban went into place, but didn't buy the mantle cabinet for it. When I called them a few weeks later to get the cabinet, they told me they couldn't sell it to me because I live in California. Seemed kind of a stupid policy - but it did keep me from installing my heater.

 

[kenmac]

Thanks Kenmac for the reality check. I/we do things all the time that might kill us. They haven't outlawed getting oil on your hands, just these ventless heaters in many places.

You say they are allowed by state codes. Are they now legal in all states?

Most all states now are covered by international gas code. I don't go to all states so,I can't answer if there legal in all states. But , I don't know any states that still have their own codes . I thought all statess now fall under international gas code. International gas code allows these ventless heaters/ logs . B-4 international gas code the state I'am in wouldn't allow these heaters in a bedroom. International gas code does allow this installation. A gas range will put off more co than one of these heaters. Yet, you never hear of this. I have a $3000.00 co detector & because these heaters burn so clean it produces no co when checked with this detector. Now,when I put this detector on a gas range went you can watch the scale rise. Highbeam ,Incomplete combustion of any fuel is what causes co . These heaters are complete combustion heaters. Did you know that you can take the vent off a gas water heater or a furnace & if they are burning correctly , they won't produce any co ?? Get a real co & check it for yourself. I'am not talking about one of those low cost co detectors . I'am talking about a real detector . I've been in this business for some 30 yrs & have seen people with their gas furnace vent disconnected for years because they said they were loosing heat out this vent that they could be heating their house with ! AS far as I know these folkes are still alive .If they had been breathing co they would have been dead long ago The way folkes die from co from a gas furnace is, when you get a crack / rusted hole in the combustion chamber & the blower fan comes on & starts to interfer with the combustion process in the combustion chamber or, someone doesn't maintain their appliance & dust starts to collect in the air shudders on the burners & you start to loose your primary air to the burner & you are only burning secondary air. Then the flame turns yellow & starts sooting up the combustion chamber then, the flames start rolling around searching for that primary air.

I didn't mean to go on on but ??

This must be my longest post ever

 

[kenmac]

Here in California, the vent-free heaters are illegal - but if you installed them before the law was passed three or so years ago, you are grandfathered in -


Well, Cal .Is a different story. You can't even have a weed eater in cal.

Or much of anything else that burns gasoline etc,

You know. I always hear the term. My appliance is '' Grandfathered in " . No where in any code (that I've seen) does it mention grandfather

 

[mahlers]

Here in California, the vent-free heaters are illegal - but if you installed them before the law was passed three or so years ago, you are grandfathered in -


Well, Cal .Is a different story. You can't even have a weed eater in cal.

Or much of anything else that burns gasoline etc,

You know. I always hear the term. My appliance is '' Grandfathered in " . No where in any code (that I've seen) does it mention grandfather

I'm afraid you're a little bit misinformed about California's air pollution rules. About the only small engines that you can't have here are the poorly built ones that don't pass CARB guidelines. While I'm not a fan of all regulations here in the Peoples Republic of California, this one is OK in my eyes. We have just too many people moving here and the air quality was terrible. Anything they can do to fix that is a good thing - or just close our borders to new people moving in. Or, make the regs so scary that people stay the heck away

Regarding the term 'Grandfathered' being explicitly stated in codes, that may be true. But, I haven't seen several 'terms' explicitly stated that convey the spirit of the code. In the case of grandfathering, the spirit of the code is that if something is installed and 'up to code' at the time of installation, new codes can't force you to uninstall it just because the code changed. While this may seem bad for some things (like aluminum electrical building wire), it does make it possible for us to adhere to codes without undue and unreasonable hardship. If we had to adhere to new codes for existing installations as those codes came out, I can GUARANTEE that 99% of the structures in the US would be in violation of legal codes shortly after they 'passed' code initially. What's the use of having codes if they are impossible to follow? If everyone is in violation, and it is virtually impossible to enforce, you may as well not have codes at all. In the case of vent-free heaters, they can't force you to uninstall it, but they can make it very difficult for you to keep it installed by making it illegal to get parts - and that's exactly what they did.

Back on the note of vent-free heaters - I really like the concept of them, but in the cold winter months I do notice that they cause a ton of water condensation on windows and other cold surfaces. We had to start using a dehumidifier to remedy that - and the cost of running the dehumidifier pretty much countered any energy efficiency advantage of those heaters. Just my observation and opinion...