Vets or relative of vets
- Thread starter Hillbilly
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ERNIEB
Platinum Member
Kubmech, No I understood what you were saying, I just wasn't sure I had made myself clear. I was thinking of how many families lost men in the war. I guess anyone who has an interest in WWII has one group that they find more interesting then the others. But hey, how about those guys who flew the "Dolittle raid"? If memory serves, I think those were B24's. Taking off from an aircraft carrier, bombing Tokyo, and then to secret landing strips in China. What landing strips? Talk about King Kong b's. And they were all voluteers!! Now that takes a special kind of man.
Ernie
Ernie
No doubt B's of steel (well, maybe titanium, steel would have weighed too much) You want us to do WHAT? OK. Yeah, landing strips, that was a good one. We want you guys to launch a heavy B-25 bomber from a carrier, bomb a few targets in mainland Japan, and oh by the way if you have enough fuel, land in China. Some of those guys actually flew over the imperial palace. What a wake up call for Hirohito, what a great mission. Did a world of good for american morale.
patrickg
Veteran Member
I have been blessed to have been good friends with four WWII vets, two still living, one lost contact, and one died recently. The one recently passed away (in his 70's) from a congenital defect. He was quite an American. He too lied about his age and ended up in the US Army Air Corps. After riding around in the desert shooting clay pidgeons from the back of a moving pick up they decided he would be a tail gunner on B-17s.
He was in the Eighth Air Force flying out of England over France and Germany prior to long range fighter protection. The way you shoot down a B-17 is AA fire or fighters. Fighters go for the tail gunner since if you can get him you can finish off the bomber at your leisure. One time coming back to base his gun position in the tail was so shot up that on landing it fell off onto the runway with him in it. Broke both arms and knocked out both of his front teeth. When he healed they transfered him into the Pathfinders. This did two things: one, it reset his mission counter so he started all over accumulating enough missions to get out and two, as the Pathfinders led the daylight missions over Germany they were the object of every ME-109 in creation. After surviving that for many missions he was given another job as crew chief on Goony Birds or equivalent where the job was to deliver people and materials to rendezvous points behind enemy lines. He said deliveries weren't all that bad, comparitively, you could not talk to a passenger, of course, so you wouldn't know their nationality or anything in case you were downed and interrogated. He said you didn't even come to a complete stop just slow to a walk the passenger(s) hop out, you kick duffle bags of "stuff" out the door, give the high sign to the pilot and he would fire wall it and that was that. It was the pick ups that had a high pucker factor. You had to stop and someone would run out of the woods to board. Was it the right guy(s) or someone who would lob a grenade or shoot everyone or what...
I was curious how the partisans could light up a field with bonfires or flare pots so the plane could see where the field was without the bad guys swooping in. He said there were usually multiple fields lit up and you would be told which was the right one, like - next to last on left facing north or whatever. Then before landing you would get a coded signal from a flashlight on the ground and hope it was the right guy not the bad guys who may have tortured the code out of someone.
General Billy Mitchell of Raid on Tokyo fame later led a massive daylight raid of virtually the entire Eighth Air Force to bomb a strategic target in Germany. You can't hide that large of a group so the Germans put up a lot of flack. My friend was the tail gunner in the lead plane commanded by General Billy Mitchell when Mitchell got cold feet and turned around and ran for home. He ordered the bombardier to jettison the bomb load (not that unusual, done to lighten ship, sometimes on less important target, or in the channel). His turning around in the face of flack no worse than they experienced day in day out was viewed by the crew as cowardice as they did this every day sometimes twice in a day. Fly over Germany get shot to hell, go home if able, get a shot of rum and a cup of coffee and sandwich while being briefed for next mission. Meanwhile out on the flightline they were hosing out the remains of some of the other crewmembers. You get replacements for the dead and injured, get a tank of fuel, more bombs, required repairs, and go again. The General went along to lead the mission but the crew was the regular crew of that plane (not his personal crew) the navigator, a regular member of the crew called the General a coward over the intercom (expletives deleted). When they landed, the General lined the crew up by the plane and went down the line screaming in one after another crewman's face trying to find the culprit. He was purple with rage. the navigator interrupted him to inform him that it was he who made the comment. The General went ballistic threatening a court marshal, etc. Nothing bad happened to the navigator who was the son of the well connected millionaire Mr. Breck of the Breck hair products fortune Brecks. I saved the worst for last...My buddy always got a great view of the bombing results as he was sitting facing backwards and could see the impacts. General Billy Mitchel ordered the jetisoning of the bomb load (which was copied by every plane in the formation as their orders were to bomb where the leader did) directly over a small picturesque rural mountain village and erased it, the non combatant population, and a lot of the surrounding farms and fields from the face of the earth. My buddy said it was the only time he cried during a mission. I think maybe they left this little vignette out of the movies that glorified Mitchell. ]\
In later years as an old man Mitchell was at the US Grant Hotel in San Diego, some affair for big wheels, my friend crashed the party for the opportunity to call Mitchel a coward to his face and got an elbo to the side of his neck from a body guard for his trouble. By the time he quit seeing stars he was on the sidewalk out front. This same friend later was in business with mountaintop radio repeaters and ended up suing the Government for 7 years and finally won. A real bulldog, as he was a private investigator after the war he tracked down the original Government rep who had written the contract in dispute (and denied by current Government types as being valid) found him in a rest home in Florida and got a deposition stating the Government's position when the contract was written. That ended the case. I'll miss my good friend and member in good standing of the Jim Smith club.
Hope this didn't run too long or get too controversial. I still have two more friends to report on later if anyone still wants to here about REAL AMERICAN heroes I've been privileged to know I'll tell about the frogman later. He drove landing craft on D-Day and later was an Under Water Demolition guy (Frogman) and the other had three ships sunk out from under him in the South Pacific.
My mom's younger brother, as a WWII Naval Firefighter, volunteered to go aboard a burning munitions transport ship to try to save ammunition that was desperately needed ashore by the Marines fighting to establilsh a foothold on Okinawa. He was killed when a Kamikazi impacted where he was fighting the fire. Just another decorated country boy trying to do the right thing so we can live free. He is a name on a war memorial but is real to a few surviving family members who can't hear his name without tears forming in their eyes.
My friend and business associate, John (Jack) Robberts lied about his age, joined the Navy and beccame a plane captain on a flattop in the south pacific. He was standing on deck when the famous (shown over and over) scene was filmed of a carrier fighter landing on deck and falling in half from having been shot up so badly. I think he said the pilot was a congressmans son and though burned, survived. He was in battle of Coral Sea, and Middway. One day they were torpedoed and their carrier sunk. As they were about to abandon ship a buddy nicknamed "Jughead" who had always envied officers having .45's picked up two, complete with spare clips and holsters on Sam Brown belts (discarded by officers going over the side. Needless to say the fool nearly drown as the weight carried his straight down like an anchor. He shucked them and just made it to the top. They were picked within minutes a DE (I think he said) got hot coffee and a blanket when the DE was hit by a torpedo and sunk. Later that afternoon they were picked up again for a repeat performance. He said after being sunk 3 times he started ttaking the war real personal like.
Let me know if anyone wants to here about my buddy, Lenny (currently a docent volunteer at the "Truck Museum" near San Diego. He was the Landing craft driver on D-Day and later a frog man.
Patrick
He was in the Eighth Air Force flying out of England over France and Germany prior to long range fighter protection. The way you shoot down a B-17 is AA fire or fighters. Fighters go for the tail gunner since if you can get him you can finish off the bomber at your leisure. One time coming back to base his gun position in the tail was so shot up that on landing it fell off onto the runway with him in it. Broke both arms and knocked out both of his front teeth. When he healed they transfered him into the Pathfinders. This did two things: one, it reset his mission counter so he started all over accumulating enough missions to get out and two, as the Pathfinders led the daylight missions over Germany they were the object of every ME-109 in creation. After surviving that for many missions he was given another job as crew chief on Goony Birds or equivalent where the job was to deliver people and materials to rendezvous points behind enemy lines. He said deliveries weren't all that bad, comparitively, you could not talk to a passenger, of course, so you wouldn't know their nationality or anything in case you were downed and interrogated. He said you didn't even come to a complete stop just slow to a walk the passenger(s) hop out, you kick duffle bags of "stuff" out the door, give the high sign to the pilot and he would fire wall it and that was that. It was the pick ups that had a high pucker factor. You had to stop and someone would run out of the woods to board. Was it the right guy(s) or someone who would lob a grenade or shoot everyone or what...
I was curious how the partisans could light up a field with bonfires or flare pots so the plane could see where the field was without the bad guys swooping in. He said there were usually multiple fields lit up and you would be told which was the right one, like - next to last on left facing north or whatever. Then before landing you would get a coded signal from a flashlight on the ground and hope it was the right guy not the bad guys who may have tortured the code out of someone.
General Billy Mitchell of Raid on Tokyo fame later led a massive daylight raid of virtually the entire Eighth Air Force to bomb a strategic target in Germany. You can't hide that large of a group so the Germans put up a lot of flack. My friend was the tail gunner in the lead plane commanded by General Billy Mitchell when Mitchell got cold feet and turned around and ran for home. He ordered the bombardier to jettison the bomb load (not that unusual, done to lighten ship, sometimes on less important target, or in the channel). His turning around in the face of flack no worse than they experienced day in day out was viewed by the crew as cowardice as they did this every day sometimes twice in a day. Fly over Germany get shot to hell, go home if able, get a shot of rum and a cup of coffee and sandwich while being briefed for next mission. Meanwhile out on the flightline they were hosing out the remains of some of the other crewmembers. You get replacements for the dead and injured, get a tank of fuel, more bombs, required repairs, and go again. The General went along to lead the mission but the crew was the regular crew of that plane (not his personal crew) the navigator, a regular member of the crew called the General a coward over the intercom (expletives deleted). When they landed, the General lined the crew up by the plane and went down the line screaming in one after another crewman's face trying to find the culprit. He was purple with rage. the navigator interrupted him to inform him that it was he who made the comment. The General went ballistic threatening a court marshal, etc. Nothing bad happened to the navigator who was the son of the well connected millionaire Mr. Breck of the Breck hair products fortune Brecks. I saved the worst for last...My buddy always got a great view of the bombing results as he was sitting facing backwards and could see the impacts. General Billy Mitchel ordered the jetisoning of the bomb load (which was copied by every plane in the formation as their orders were to bomb where the leader did) directly over a small picturesque rural mountain village and erased it, the non combatant population, and a lot of the surrounding farms and fields from the face of the earth. My buddy said it was the only time he cried during a mission. I think maybe they left this little vignette out of the movies that glorified Mitchell. ]\
In later years as an old man Mitchell was at the US Grant Hotel in San Diego, some affair for big wheels, my friend crashed the party for the opportunity to call Mitchel a coward to his face and got an elbo to the side of his neck from a body guard for his trouble. By the time he quit seeing stars he was on the sidewalk out front. This same friend later was in business with mountaintop radio repeaters and ended up suing the Government for 7 years and finally won. A real bulldog, as he was a private investigator after the war he tracked down the original Government rep who had written the contract in dispute (and denied by current Government types as being valid) found him in a rest home in Florida and got a deposition stating the Government's position when the contract was written. That ended the case. I'll miss my good friend and member in good standing of the Jim Smith club.
Hope this didn't run too long or get too controversial. I still have two more friends to report on later if anyone still wants to here about REAL AMERICAN heroes I've been privileged to know I'll tell about the frogman later. He drove landing craft on D-Day and later was an Under Water Demolition guy (Frogman) and the other had three ships sunk out from under him in the South Pacific.
My mom's younger brother, as a WWII Naval Firefighter, volunteered to go aboard a burning munitions transport ship to try to save ammunition that was desperately needed ashore by the Marines fighting to establilsh a foothold on Okinawa. He was killed when a Kamikazi impacted where he was fighting the fire. Just another decorated country boy trying to do the right thing so we can live free. He is a name on a war memorial but is real to a few surviving family members who can't hear his name without tears forming in their eyes.
My friend and business associate, John (Jack) Robberts lied about his age, joined the Navy and beccame a plane captain on a flattop in the south pacific. He was standing on deck when the famous (shown over and over) scene was filmed of a carrier fighter landing on deck and falling in half from having been shot up so badly. I think he said the pilot was a congressmans son and though burned, survived. He was in battle of Coral Sea, and Middway. One day they were torpedoed and their carrier sunk. As they were about to abandon ship a buddy nicknamed "Jughead" who had always envied officers having .45's picked up two, complete with spare clips and holsters on Sam Brown belts (discarded by officers going over the side. Needless to say the fool nearly drown as the weight carried his straight down like an anchor. He shucked them and just made it to the top. They were picked within minutes a DE (I think he said) got hot coffee and a blanket when the DE was hit by a torpedo and sunk. Later that afternoon they were picked up again for a repeat performance. He said after being sunk 3 times he started ttaking the war real personal like.
Let me know if anyone wants to here about my buddy, Lenny (currently a docent volunteer at the "Truck Museum" near San Diego. He was the Landing craft driver on D-Day and later a frog man.
Patrick
Hillbilly,
I have a great uncle who fought in the Battle of the Bulge and came back. My dad was in Vietnam and came home several months before the Tet offensive overran his base. A cousin wasn't so lucky and was killed there serving as a sniper. Way back on the other side of the family my great great grandfather fought in the Battle of Shiloh and lived through it but lost his brother there.
I have a great uncle who fought in the Battle of the Bulge and came back. My dad was in Vietnam and came home several months before the Tet offensive overran his base. A cousin wasn't so lucky and was killed there serving as a sniper. Way back on the other side of the family my great great grandfather fought in the Battle of Shiloh and lived through it but lost his brother there.
ERNIEB
Platinum Member
Patrick, I think you got the wrong General there. Interesting story though.
Ernie
Ernie
jimmoore
Platinum Member
General Dolittle did the Tokyo raid flying B-25 MITCHELL bombers named after Gen Billy Mitchell. B-24s were 4 engine LIBERATORS. Take of from a carrier no way!
jim
Alan L.
Elite Member
Last weekend I attended the funeral of my Godfather - the guy I was named for, who died at age 83. He was Dad's best friend and grew up as an only child in the sticks of north Texas. I lost my Dad in May of '99 at age 80. The friend was like a brother to Dad. Anyway Dad's older brother who died before I was born gave Dad, his other 2 brothers, and the friend a new silver dollar. Dad and his bros went to town and spent theirs, but the friend hung onto his.
Anyway, about 10 years ago he presented it to me on a belt buckle, which I still have, and like I say he died last week with full military honors.
The significance of this silver dollar given to him by my uncle 70 years or so ago is that he had drilled a hole in this special silver dollar and wore it around his neck on a chain. As a Marine, he was one of the lucky survivors of the Normandy Beach invasion, with this silver dollar hanging from his neck. He always thought it brought him luck, and I of course cherish it.
Alan L., TX
Anyway, about 10 years ago he presented it to me on a belt buckle, which I still have, and like I say he died last week with full military honors.
The significance of this silver dollar given to him by my uncle 70 years or so ago is that he had drilled a hole in this special silver dollar and wore it around his neck on a chain. As a Marine, he was one of the lucky survivors of the Normandy Beach invasion, with this silver dollar hanging from his neck. He always thought it brought him luck, and I of course cherish it.
Alan L., TX
