Vets or relative of vets
- Thread starter Hillbilly
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ERNIEB
Platinum Member
Kubmech, No I understood what you were saying, I just wasn't sure I had made myself clear. I was thinking of how many families lost men in the war. I guess anyone who has an interest in WWII has one group that they find more interesting then the others. But hey, how about those guys who flew the "Dolittle raid"? If memory serves, I think those were B24's. Taking off from an aircraft carrier, bombing Tokyo, and then to secret landing strips in China. What landing strips? Talk about King Kong b's. And they were all voluteers!! Now that takes a special kind of man.
Ernie
Ernie
No doubt B's of steel (well, maybe titanium, steel would have weighed too much) You want us to do WHAT? OK. Yeah, landing strips, that was a good one. We want you guys to launch a heavy B-25 bomber from a carrier, bomb a few targets in mainland Japan, and oh by the way if you have enough fuel, land in China. Some of those guys actually flew over the imperial palace. What a wake up call for Hirohito, what a great mission. Did a world of good for american morale.
patrickg
Veteran Member
I have been blessed to have been good friends with four WWII vets, two still living, one lost contact, and one died recently. The one recently passed away (in his 70's) from a congenital defect. He was quite an American. He too lied about his age and ended up in the US Army Air Corps. After riding around in the desert shooting clay pidgeons from the back of a moving pick up they decided he would be a tail gunner on B-17s.
He was in the Eighth Air Force flying out of England over France and Germany prior to long range fighter protection. The way you shoot down a B-17 is AA fire or fighters. Fighters go for the tail gunner since if you can get him you can finish off the bomber at your leisure. One time coming back to base his gun position in the tail was so shot up that on landing it fell off onto the runway with him in it. Broke both arms and knocked out both of his front teeth. When he healed they transfered him into the Pathfinders. This did two things: one, it reset his mission counter so he started all over accumulating enough missions to get out and two, as the Pathfinders led the daylight missions over Germany they were the object of every ME-109 in creation. After surviving that for many missions he was given another job as crew chief on Goony Birds or equivalent where the job was to deliver people and materials to rendezvous points behind enemy lines. He said deliveries weren't all that bad, comparitively, you could not talk to a passenger, of course, so you wouldn't know their nationality or anything in case you were downed and interrogated. He said you didn't even come to a complete stop just slow to a walk the passenger(s) hop out, you kick duffle bags of "stuff" out the door, give the high sign to the pilot and he would fire wall it and that was that. It was the pick ups that had a high pucker factor. You had to stop and someone would run out of the woods to board. Was it the right guy(s) or someone who would lob a grenade or shoot everyone or what...
I was curious how the partisans could light up a field with bonfires or flare pots so the plane could see where the field was without the bad guys swooping in. He said there were usually multiple fields lit up and you would be told which was the right one, like - next to last on left facing north or whatever. Then before landing you would get a coded signal from a flashlight on the ground and hope it was the right guy not the bad guys who may have tortured the code out of someone.
General Billy Mitchell of Raid on Tokyo fame later led a massive daylight raid of virtually the entire Eighth Air Force to bomb a strategic target in Germany. You can't hide that large of a group so the Germans put up a lot of flack. My friend was the tail gunner in the lead plane commanded by General Billy Mitchell when Mitchell got cold feet and turned around and ran for home. He ordered the bombardier to jettison the bomb load (not that unusual, done to lighten ship, sometimes on less important target, or in the channel). His turning around in the face of flack no worse than they experienced day in day out was viewed by the crew as cowardice as they did this every day sometimes twice in a day. Fly over Germany get shot to hell, go home if able, get a shot of rum and a cup of coffee and sandwich while being briefed for next mission. Meanwhile out on the flightline they were hosing out the remains of some of the other crewmembers. You get replacements for the dead and injured, get a tank of fuel, more bombs, required repairs, and go again. The General went along to lead the mission but the crew was the regular crew of that plane (not his personal crew) the navigator, a regular member of the crew called the General a coward over the intercom (expletives deleted). When they landed, the General lined the crew up by the plane and went down the line screaming in one after another crewman's face trying to find the culprit. He was purple with rage. the navigator interrupted him to inform him that it was he who made the comment. The General went ballistic threatening a court marshal, etc. Nothing bad happened to the navigator who was the son of the well connected millionaire Mr. Breck of the Breck hair products fortune Brecks. I saved the worst for last...My buddy always got a great view of the bombing results as he was sitting facing backwards and could see the impacts. General Billy Mitchel ordered the jetisoning of the bomb load (which was copied by every plane in the formation as their orders were to bomb where the leader did) directly over a small picturesque rural mountain village and erased it, the non combatant population, and a lot of the surrounding farms and fields from the face of the earth. My buddy said it was the only time he cried during a mission. I think maybe they left this little vignette out of the movies that glorified Mitchell. ]\
In later years as an old man Mitchell was at the US Grant Hotel in San Diego, some affair for big wheels, my friend crashed the party for the opportunity to call Mitchel a coward to his face and got an elbo to the side of his neck from a body guard for his trouble. By the time he quit seeing stars he was on the sidewalk out front. This same friend later was in business with mountaintop radio repeaters and ended up suing the Government for 7 years and finally won. A real bulldog, as he was a private investigator after the war he tracked down the original Government rep who had written the contract in dispute (and denied by current Government types as being valid) found him in a rest home in Florida and got a deposition stating the Government's position when the contract was written. That ended the case. I'll miss my good friend and member in good standing of the Jim Smith club.
Hope this didn't run too long or get too controversial. I still have two more friends to report on later if anyone still wants to here about REAL AMERICAN heroes I've been privileged to know I'll tell about the frogman later. He drove landing craft on D-Day and later was an Under Water Demolition guy (Frogman) and the other had three ships sunk out from under him in the South Pacific.
My mom's younger brother, as a WWII Naval Firefighter, volunteered to go aboard a burning munitions transport ship to try to save ammunition that was desperately needed ashore by the Marines fighting to establilsh a foothold on Okinawa. He was killed when a Kamikazi impacted where he was fighting the fire. Just another decorated country boy trying to do the right thing so we can live free. He is a name on a war memorial but is real to a few surviving family members who can't hear his name without tears forming in their eyes.
My friend and business associate, John (Jack) Robberts lied about his age, joined the Navy and beccame a plane captain on a flattop in the south pacific. He was standing on deck when the famous (shown over and over) scene was filmed of a carrier fighter landing on deck and falling in half from having been shot up so badly. I think he said the pilot was a congressmans son and though burned, survived. He was in battle of Coral Sea, and Middway. One day they were torpedoed and their carrier sunk. As they were about to abandon ship a buddy nicknamed "Jughead" who had always envied officers having .45's picked up two, complete with spare clips and holsters on Sam Brown belts (discarded by officers going over the side. Needless to say the fool nearly drown as the weight carried his straight down like an anchor. He shucked them and just made it to the top. They were picked within minutes a DE (I think he said) got hot coffee and a blanket when the DE was hit by a torpedo and sunk. Later that afternoon they were picked up again for a repeat performance. He said after being sunk 3 times he started ttaking the war real personal like.
Let me know if anyone wants to here about my buddy, Lenny (currently a docent volunteer at the "Truck Museum" near San Diego. He was the Landing craft driver on D-Day and later a frog man.
Patrick
He was in the Eighth Air Force flying out of England over France and Germany prior to long range fighter protection. The way you shoot down a B-17 is AA fire or fighters. Fighters go for the tail gunner since if you can get him you can finish off the bomber at your leisure. One time coming back to base his gun position in the tail was so shot up that on landing it fell off onto the runway with him in it. Broke both arms and knocked out both of his front teeth. When he healed they transfered him into the Pathfinders. This did two things: one, it reset his mission counter so he started all over accumulating enough missions to get out and two, as the Pathfinders led the daylight missions over Germany they were the object of every ME-109 in creation. After surviving that for many missions he was given another job as crew chief on Goony Birds or equivalent where the job was to deliver people and materials to rendezvous points behind enemy lines. He said deliveries weren't all that bad, comparitively, you could not talk to a passenger, of course, so you wouldn't know their nationality or anything in case you were downed and interrogated. He said you didn't even come to a complete stop just slow to a walk the passenger(s) hop out, you kick duffle bags of "stuff" out the door, give the high sign to the pilot and he would fire wall it and that was that. It was the pick ups that had a high pucker factor. You had to stop and someone would run out of the woods to board. Was it the right guy(s) or someone who would lob a grenade or shoot everyone or what...
I was curious how the partisans could light up a field with bonfires or flare pots so the plane could see where the field was without the bad guys swooping in. He said there were usually multiple fields lit up and you would be told which was the right one, like - next to last on left facing north or whatever. Then before landing you would get a coded signal from a flashlight on the ground and hope it was the right guy not the bad guys who may have tortured the code out of someone.
General Billy Mitchell of Raid on Tokyo fame later led a massive daylight raid of virtually the entire Eighth Air Force to bomb a strategic target in Germany. You can't hide that large of a group so the Germans put up a lot of flack. My friend was the tail gunner in the lead plane commanded by General Billy Mitchell when Mitchell got cold feet and turned around and ran for home. He ordered the bombardier to jettison the bomb load (not that unusual, done to lighten ship, sometimes on less important target, or in the channel). His turning around in the face of flack no worse than they experienced day in day out was viewed by the crew as cowardice as they did this every day sometimes twice in a day. Fly over Germany get shot to hell, go home if able, get a shot of rum and a cup of coffee and sandwich while being briefed for next mission. Meanwhile out on the flightline they were hosing out the remains of some of the other crewmembers. You get replacements for the dead and injured, get a tank of fuel, more bombs, required repairs, and go again. The General went along to lead the mission but the crew was the regular crew of that plane (not his personal crew) the navigator, a regular member of the crew called the General a coward over the intercom (expletives deleted). When they landed, the General lined the crew up by the plane and went down the line screaming in one after another crewman's face trying to find the culprit. He was purple with rage. the navigator interrupted him to inform him that it was he who made the comment. The General went ballistic threatening a court marshal, etc. Nothing bad happened to the navigator who was the son of the well connected millionaire Mr. Breck of the Breck hair products fortune Brecks. I saved the worst for last...My buddy always got a great view of the bombing results as he was sitting facing backwards and could see the impacts. General Billy Mitchel ordered the jetisoning of the bomb load (which was copied by every plane in the formation as their orders were to bomb where the leader did) directly over a small picturesque rural mountain village and erased it, the non combatant population, and a lot of the surrounding farms and fields from the face of the earth. My buddy said it was the only time he cried during a mission. I think maybe they left this little vignette out of the movies that glorified Mitchell. ]\
In later years as an old man Mitchell was at the US Grant Hotel in San Diego, some affair for big wheels, my friend crashed the party for the opportunity to call Mitchel a coward to his face and got an elbo to the side of his neck from a body guard for his trouble. By the time he quit seeing stars he was on the sidewalk out front. This same friend later was in business with mountaintop radio repeaters and ended up suing the Government for 7 years and finally won. A real bulldog, as he was a private investigator after the war he tracked down the original Government rep who had written the contract in dispute (and denied by current Government types as being valid) found him in a rest home in Florida and got a deposition stating the Government's position when the contract was written. That ended the case. I'll miss my good friend and member in good standing of the Jim Smith club.
Hope this didn't run too long or get too controversial. I still have two more friends to report on later if anyone still wants to here about REAL AMERICAN heroes I've been privileged to know I'll tell about the frogman later. He drove landing craft on D-Day and later was an Under Water Demolition guy (Frogman) and the other had three ships sunk out from under him in the South Pacific.
My mom's younger brother, as a WWII Naval Firefighter, volunteered to go aboard a burning munitions transport ship to try to save ammunition that was desperately needed ashore by the Marines fighting to establilsh a foothold on Okinawa. He was killed when a Kamikazi impacted where he was fighting the fire. Just another decorated country boy trying to do the right thing so we can live free. He is a name on a war memorial but is real to a few surviving family members who can't hear his name without tears forming in their eyes.
My friend and business associate, John (Jack) Robberts lied about his age, joined the Navy and beccame a plane captain on a flattop in the south pacific. He was standing on deck when the famous (shown over and over) scene was filmed of a carrier fighter landing on deck and falling in half from having been shot up so badly. I think he said the pilot was a congressmans son and though burned, survived. He was in battle of Coral Sea, and Middway. One day they were torpedoed and their carrier sunk. As they were about to abandon ship a buddy nicknamed "Jughead" who had always envied officers having .45's picked up two, complete with spare clips and holsters on Sam Brown belts (discarded by officers going over the side. Needless to say the fool nearly drown as the weight carried his straight down like an anchor. He shucked them and just made it to the top. They were picked within minutes a DE (I think he said) got hot coffee and a blanket when the DE was hit by a torpedo and sunk. Later that afternoon they were picked up again for a repeat performance. He said after being sunk 3 times he started ttaking the war real personal like.
Let me know if anyone wants to here about my buddy, Lenny (currently a docent volunteer at the "Truck Museum" near San Diego. He was the Landing craft driver on D-Day and later a frog man.
Patrick
Hillbilly,
I have a great uncle who fought in the Battle of the Bulge and came back. My dad was in Vietnam and came home several months before the Tet offensive overran his base. A cousin wasn't so lucky and was killed there serving as a sniper. Way back on the other side of the family my great great grandfather fought in the Battle of Shiloh and lived through it but lost his brother there.
I have a great uncle who fought in the Battle of the Bulge and came back. My dad was in Vietnam and came home several months before the Tet offensive overran his base. A cousin wasn't so lucky and was killed there serving as a sniper. Way back on the other side of the family my great great grandfather fought in the Battle of Shiloh and lived through it but lost his brother there.
ERNIEB
Platinum Member
Patrick, I think you got the wrong General there. Interesting story though.
Ernie
Ernie
jimmoore
Platinum Member
General Dolittle did the Tokyo raid flying B-25 MITCHELL bombers named after Gen Billy Mitchell. B-24s were 4 engine LIBERATORS. Take of from a carrier no way!
jim
Alan L.
Elite Member
Last weekend I attended the funeral of my Godfather - the guy I was named for, who died at age 83. He was Dad's best friend and grew up as an only child in the sticks of north Texas. I lost my Dad in May of '99 at age 80. The friend was like a brother to Dad. Anyway Dad's older brother who died before I was born gave Dad, his other 2 brothers, and the friend a new silver dollar. Dad and his bros went to town and spent theirs, but the friend hung onto his.
Anyway, about 10 years ago he presented it to me on a belt buckle, which I still have, and like I say he died last week with full military honors.
The significance of this silver dollar given to him by my uncle 70 years or so ago is that he had drilled a hole in this special silver dollar and wore it around his neck on a chain. As a Marine, he was one of the lucky survivors of the Normandy Beach invasion, with this silver dollar hanging from his neck. He always thought it brought him luck, and I of course cherish it.
Alan L., TX
Anyway, about 10 years ago he presented it to me on a belt buckle, which I still have, and like I say he died last week with full military honors.
The significance of this silver dollar given to him by my uncle 70 years or so ago is that he had drilled a hole in this special silver dollar and wore it around his neck on a chain. As a Marine, he was one of the lucky survivors of the Normandy Beach invasion, with this silver dollar hanging from his neck. He always thought it brought him luck, and I of course cherish it.
Alan L., TX
ERNIEB
Platinum Member
Jim, kubmech correctly said B25's. It was yours truly who thought they might be B24's. When it comes to aircraft I plead ignorance/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I can recall my relatives who were Army Air Corp/Air Force, having alot of bull sessions where Billy Mitchell was the topic. I've read a few bits and pieces on the man. I think history has shown him to be ahead of his time. Someday, I would like to find and read a good biography about him.
Ernie
Ernie
http://www.tsil.net/~bsilver/mitchel.htm
Heres a link for more info about Gen. Mitchell.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.com/jdoolitt.htm Here's one for Gen. Doolittle
Heres a link for more info about Gen. Mitchell.
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.com/jdoolitt.htm Here's one for Gen. Doolittle
TWINKLE_TOES
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2000
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Ernie,
Roger Burlingame wrote a couple of books about Mitchell. I'm sure they are out of print. Look at http://www.usedbooks.com/
Al
Roger Burlingame wrote a couple of books about Mitchell. I'm sure they are out of print. Look at http://www.usedbooks.com/
Al
ERNIEB
Platinum Member
Al and Kubmech, thanks for the links. The used book site is not currently doing on line sales. According to the link on Mitchell, he wrote 3 books himself. I would have thought by now they would have overturned his court martial, but evidently not. I noticed that there was a Billy Mitchell JR.. I wonder if he served in the military?
Ernie
Ernie
ERNIEB
Platinum Member
<font color=blue>if given the opportunity to have been in WWII or Korea, over 'Nam', I would have accepted either.</font color=blue>
Is there a "none of the above" choice?/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Hey Scruffy, when you were over there did you happen to run into my girlfriend Mi/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Seriously, I agree with you, and couldn't have said it better. When I was there I just tried to make the best of it. Never did fell like we were accomplishing much. These days, I just try to think about the good things, friends I had, the good times we had, that kind of thing.
Ernie
Is there a "none of the above" choice?/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Hey Scruffy, when you were over there did you happen to run into my girlfriend Mi/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
Seriously, I agree with you, and couldn't have said it better. When I was there I just tried to make the best of it. Never did fell like we were accomplishing much. These days, I just try to think about the good things, friends I had, the good times we had, that kind of thing.
Ernie
scruffy
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2000
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- 1,445
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Ernie, I am the same way. Rather remember the good times, funny things that happened, and the friends I made, than the other stuff that went along with it. It WAS an experience, one we could have done without, but nonetheless, an experience.
No, I can't say I ever ran into 'Mi', but I did keep bumping into her 'Other' boyfriend, Chuck!
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by scruffy on 09/03/01 00:04 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
No, I can't say I ever ran into 'Mi', but I did keep bumping into her 'Other' boyfriend, Chuck!
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by scruffy on 09/03/01 00:04 AM (server time).</FONT></P>
patrickg
Veteran Member
Hillbilly, I would like to appologize to you and all other readers of this thread for my obvious confusion and erroneous citation. I can only offer as an excuse my lack of sleep, advanced age, and general state of confusion. General Dolittle, made famous for his Tokyo raid using B-25's AKA Mitchell or Billy Mitchell bombers was the "gentleman" whose cowardice was explained to me by my friend, the WWII Eigth Air Force B-17 tail gunner. With this one exception, I stand behind the veracity and factual accuracy of the account. My deceased friend, James (Jimmy) Smith was in my estimation one of the most honest men to draw a breath and if he said it was so, it was so to the the best of his belief and knowledge.
Another brave American and defender of freedom that I have been priveleged to know is Lenny Premsalaar. (I met both of these guys, Jim and Len through Ham radio but became good friends and our families have spent time together, much to my spiritual enrichment.) Len Was in the Navy in WWII and drove landing craft on D-Day. Three trips in to the beach and back. He too was a target. If you can shoot the driver of a landing craft it becomes an easier target so shooting the driver was a priority for the defenders. Len said that no one explained this strategy to him in advance but it didn't take long to figure it out as you approach the beach and get within accurate range of small arms and machine gun fire. It starts hailing bullets at your end of the boat. He ferried some special Ranger unit ashore that had mortars to fire grappling hooks-lines up the cliffs. Most of the first load he dropped off fired while too far from the cliffs so they couldn't scale the cliffs and were basically shot to pieces on the beach. The second and third waves did better and some guys made it to the top after they got ashore. Getting ashore was not easy as the bottom was irregular and when he got in as far as he could and still back off there was some places where the water between the landing craft and the shore was over 6 ft. He would drop the ramp and the troops would run down it into the water with their heavy packs amid a hail of bullets and try to scramble ashore without being shot or drowned. I don't recall the name of the special outfit he carried ashore but they suffered heavy casualties in prosecuting their mission.
Later Len was on a ship where his "general quarters - battle station" was an anti aircraft gun but that ship was sunk out from under him before he saw much action with it. He was wounded and bleeding as was a shipmate that he was trying to assist. As the sinking had allowed time to deploy the "shark nets" most of the surviving crew were inside them for protection against sharks. The idea was that the nets would keep the sharks from feeding on the crew. Well the guys inside the net wouldn't let him and the buddy he was tending inside the net for fear the blood would attract sharks to them. Len spent many hours outside the net tending to his friend while the sharks moved among them feeding on sailors. Next morning they were picked up and hospitalized. He was not badly injured/wonded but he and his buddy had suffered nervous breakdowns and were kept in a psychiatric ward for a period of time. After being in the water with sharks around them they had begun to halucinate and thought waves coming toward them were sharks. After they were pulled out of the water, just touching them would set them to uncontrolled panic and screaming thinking that a shark was getting them. Len got his head together fairly soon and was given a choice of three assignments. One was UDT (Underwater Demolition Team) training to be a "Frogman".
Len said that he had always been afraid of the ocean with its sharks and his recent experience with sharks had really gotten to him. He was a firm believer in getting back up on the horse that throwed him and wanted to conquer his fears so he volunteered for UDT. Learned about explosives and in training would stand at attention holding a stick of dynamite with a lit fuse until told to toss it, stuff like that. So back in the South Pacific armed with mask, fins, snorkle, knife, compass, and a roll of string with a fishing weight on it, he and his team mates would swim into enemy held waters to island beaches and measure the water depths, locate obstructions to a landing, and rig explosives to clear a path. One standing order was to not go ashore, like they would want to bare foot in swimming trunks armed with a knife. O one of these missions they completed their assigned recon and swam back out to sea to await a small craft to pick them up and return them to the ship which had been anchored about 3 miles out. Ship was gone, no boat came for them. After a while they decided that rather than having a marathon water treading contest followed by multiple drownings they would swim back in to the island and go ashore. They would rather violate the order than drown. Once ashore they found a cave that had been used by the Japanese defenders. There was food for a meal, weapons and a couple days of water. They ended up there for a week hiding out from the Japanese, where ever they were or might have been. At one point they found a stray horse that looked to be starving and killed it for food but couldn't couldn't keep it long in the heat and humidity. After nearly a week one of the guys snapped and sort of went looney tunes for a bit. He climbed up on a rock with a couple Japanese Tommy gun equivalents and started shouting at imaginary enemy soldiers and firing magazines of ammo into the jungle. They were afraid that it would attract an enemy patrol but before they could stop him two Japanese soldiers came running out of the jungle and surrendered to him. This compounded their food and water problem. A couple days later a small group of marines were landed and thought thes UDT guys were a clever Japanese trick to infiltrate. Asked about their NON-oriental eyes one guy said meybe they were surgicaly altered. Eventually they convinced the Gyrenes that they had two authentic Japanese prisoners and that they were authentic US servicemen. A seargent told a corporal to take the prisoners down the beach to the LT. at the command post. the corporal complained it was over a mile one way. the seargent repeated with a wink, TAKE THESE *&*(&$# JAPS to the command post wink wink. Ah sure sarge right away. He took the pisoners and left. About ten seconds later there were two pops and a minute later the corporal was back stating that it wasn't as far to the commend post as he had previously thought.
Some of the UDT guys wanted to go with the marines but the marines just laughed at them and their mulltiple automatic weapons and bandeliers of ammo. First ditch you trip into you'll drown with all that weight. The marines had a M1 carbine, a trencing tool, a canteen, and maybe a candy bar and a pack of smokes. They traveled and fought light. Back at the beach Len saw their ship riding at anchor about 3 miles out and when no one sent a small boat in for them they swam out to the ship. When they got aboard they found that they had been presumed dead, their personal belongings had been distributed, and the message sent out that would generate a war dept telegram to their next of kin as being KIA.
If you want any clarification on this story (I am known to make mistakes) talk to Len Premsalaar. He is a volunteer at the truck museum near San Diego, CA and is a volunteer part time ranger at lake Morena also near San Diego but lives in Bend, Oregon at least in the winter. His ham call is KS6U, he got the FCC to let him switch to his deceased wife's call sign as a memorial to her.
Patrick
Another brave American and defender of freedom that I have been priveleged to know is Lenny Premsalaar. (I met both of these guys, Jim and Len through Ham radio but became good friends and our families have spent time together, much to my spiritual enrichment.) Len Was in the Navy in WWII and drove landing craft on D-Day. Three trips in to the beach and back. He too was a target. If you can shoot the driver of a landing craft it becomes an easier target so shooting the driver was a priority for the defenders. Len said that no one explained this strategy to him in advance but it didn't take long to figure it out as you approach the beach and get within accurate range of small arms and machine gun fire. It starts hailing bullets at your end of the boat. He ferried some special Ranger unit ashore that had mortars to fire grappling hooks-lines up the cliffs. Most of the first load he dropped off fired while too far from the cliffs so they couldn't scale the cliffs and were basically shot to pieces on the beach. The second and third waves did better and some guys made it to the top after they got ashore. Getting ashore was not easy as the bottom was irregular and when he got in as far as he could and still back off there was some places where the water between the landing craft and the shore was over 6 ft. He would drop the ramp and the troops would run down it into the water with their heavy packs amid a hail of bullets and try to scramble ashore without being shot or drowned. I don't recall the name of the special outfit he carried ashore but they suffered heavy casualties in prosecuting their mission.
Later Len was on a ship where his "general quarters - battle station" was an anti aircraft gun but that ship was sunk out from under him before he saw much action with it. He was wounded and bleeding as was a shipmate that he was trying to assist. As the sinking had allowed time to deploy the "shark nets" most of the surviving crew were inside them for protection against sharks. The idea was that the nets would keep the sharks from feeding on the crew. Well the guys inside the net wouldn't let him and the buddy he was tending inside the net for fear the blood would attract sharks to them. Len spent many hours outside the net tending to his friend while the sharks moved among them feeding on sailors. Next morning they were picked up and hospitalized. He was not badly injured/wonded but he and his buddy had suffered nervous breakdowns and were kept in a psychiatric ward for a period of time. After being in the water with sharks around them they had begun to halucinate and thought waves coming toward them were sharks. After they were pulled out of the water, just touching them would set them to uncontrolled panic and screaming thinking that a shark was getting them. Len got his head together fairly soon and was given a choice of three assignments. One was UDT (Underwater Demolition Team) training to be a "Frogman".
Len said that he had always been afraid of the ocean with its sharks and his recent experience with sharks had really gotten to him. He was a firm believer in getting back up on the horse that throwed him and wanted to conquer his fears so he volunteered for UDT. Learned about explosives and in training would stand at attention holding a stick of dynamite with a lit fuse until told to toss it, stuff like that. So back in the South Pacific armed with mask, fins, snorkle, knife, compass, and a roll of string with a fishing weight on it, he and his team mates would swim into enemy held waters to island beaches and measure the water depths, locate obstructions to a landing, and rig explosives to clear a path. One standing order was to not go ashore, like they would want to bare foot in swimming trunks armed with a knife. O one of these missions they completed their assigned recon and swam back out to sea to await a small craft to pick them up and return them to the ship which had been anchored about 3 miles out. Ship was gone, no boat came for them. After a while they decided that rather than having a marathon water treading contest followed by multiple drownings they would swim back in to the island and go ashore. They would rather violate the order than drown. Once ashore they found a cave that had been used by the Japanese defenders. There was food for a meal, weapons and a couple days of water. They ended up there for a week hiding out from the Japanese, where ever they were or might have been. At one point they found a stray horse that looked to be starving and killed it for food but couldn't couldn't keep it long in the heat and humidity. After nearly a week one of the guys snapped and sort of went looney tunes for a bit. He climbed up on a rock with a couple Japanese Tommy gun equivalents and started shouting at imaginary enemy soldiers and firing magazines of ammo into the jungle. They were afraid that it would attract an enemy patrol but before they could stop him two Japanese soldiers came running out of the jungle and surrendered to him. This compounded their food and water problem. A couple days later a small group of marines were landed and thought thes UDT guys were a clever Japanese trick to infiltrate. Asked about their NON-oriental eyes one guy said meybe they were surgicaly altered. Eventually they convinced the Gyrenes that they had two authentic Japanese prisoners and that they were authentic US servicemen. A seargent told a corporal to take the prisoners down the beach to the LT. at the command post. the corporal complained it was over a mile one way. the seargent repeated with a wink, TAKE THESE *&*(&$# JAPS to the command post wink wink. Ah sure sarge right away. He took the pisoners and left. About ten seconds later there were two pops and a minute later the corporal was back stating that it wasn't as far to the commend post as he had previously thought.
Some of the UDT guys wanted to go with the marines but the marines just laughed at them and their mulltiple automatic weapons and bandeliers of ammo. First ditch you trip into you'll drown with all that weight. The marines had a M1 carbine, a trencing tool, a canteen, and maybe a candy bar and a pack of smokes. They traveled and fought light. Back at the beach Len saw their ship riding at anchor about 3 miles out and when no one sent a small boat in for them they swam out to the ship. When they got aboard they found that they had been presumed dead, their personal belongings had been distributed, and the message sent out that would generate a war dept telegram to their next of kin as being KIA.
If you want any clarification on this story (I am known to make mistakes) talk to Len Premsalaar. He is a volunteer at the truck museum near San Diego, CA and is a volunteer part time ranger at lake Morena also near San Diego but lives in Bend, Oregon at least in the winter. His ham call is KS6U, he got the FCC to let him switch to his deceased wife's call sign as a memorial to her.
Patrick
ERNIEB
Platinum Member
<font color=blue>He ferried some special Ranger unit ashore </font color=blue>
This would have been at Pointe Du Hoe, also known as Pointe Du Hoc. That area was assualted by the 2nd and 5th Ranger battalions. The first on shore were 3 companies from the 2nd led by LTC James Rudder.
It is featured in the film "The Longest Day". The film correctly shows that the Rangers were after some large guns, that were well protected. Also that when they got to them the guns were missing. But the film doesn't tell the rest of the story. The Rangers found the missing guns, set up near by, they destoyed them, and a quantity of amunition.
Ernie
This would have been at Pointe Du Hoe, also known as Pointe Du Hoc. That area was assualted by the 2nd and 5th Ranger battalions. The first on shore were 3 companies from the 2nd led by LTC James Rudder.
It is featured in the film "The Longest Day". The film correctly shows that the Rangers were after some large guns, that were well protected. Also that when they got to them the guns were missing. But the film doesn't tell the rest of the story. The Rangers found the missing guns, set up near by, they destoyed them, and a quantity of amunition.
Ernie
patrickg
Veteran Member
Thanks Ernie, I had forgotten the name of the place where he did his thing. With your prompting, I recall the "rest of the story". I recall discussing "The Longest Day" movie with him. He had thought his little piece of history would probably never make it to the silver screen since it wasn't Sword, Juno, or any BIG name place. Boy was he surprised when it was in there. "Saving Private Ryan" on the B I G screen with super surround sound, especially the landing craft assault part was quite a jolt for him but he thought it was good to show it more like it was rather than sanitized like the old western movies where hundreds of shots are fired from a six shooter and no one gets hurt, maybe a stung hand when the good guy shoots the gun out of the bad guys hand.
Thanks again Ernie,
Patrick
Thanks again Ernie,
Patrick
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