VFD's

[Bird]

Re: VFD\'s

Our local VFD had been started by an individual who bought an old truck himself and had it in his own garage. He got a VFD partially organized and started, but after he had a heart attack, sold his property, etc. it was at a point that the one old, thoroughly worn out truck was being kept by one farmer and he and his two sons were all that existed of the VFD. He asked for help in getting it started again, so some of us neighbors got together, wrote the necessary Constitution and By-Laws, elected officers, started fund raising efforts, got another truck from the Forest Service (and a lot of other equipment), got a lot donated, built a new fire station, etc. We took the old truck to my brother's house, tore down and completely rebuilt the engine, brakes, and clutch. There's a lot of time and work involved, besides responding to emergencies. As Gordon said, some of them even have ambulances, including one of the nearby small towns and they had to transport my dad one night (no charge). In other words, they're a necessity unless or until people are willing to pay the taxes for a paid department. Some members have little or no training, mistakes are made, etc., but others have a great deal of training (often at their own expense) and do a great job.

Bird

 

[Richard]

Re: VFD\'s

ErnieB, For what it's worth, my local VFD apparently is higher rated and has more/better equipment than a VERY ritzy/$$$ part of town that happens to be across the line and therefore in the city! (too bad for them)

I recently had need of their services not once, but on two occasions, as some brush fires we had turned into mild forest fires.

While they were there, I asked them about showing up/not showing up at non-members calls. They assured me they show up at any call and treat each one just as important as another. The catch? Members don't get a bill. Seems they charge something like $500/hr per vehicle $100/person I don't recall if it is per visit or (as I "think" I remember) per HOUR. Either way, they showed up with 6 vehicles and maybe 20 people (OUCH)/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif. They really getcha if you aren't a member. For the two fires we had (something like 4 or 5 acres each) they showed up, had at it and said have a nice day. We pay UNDER $100/year for membership and because we're members get a small break on our insurance also.

Richard

 

[ERNIEB]

Re: VFD\'s

Richard,
That is interesting. Let me ask you, does your membership also mean you can participate in voting and elections? Bird mentioned sending out a letter, but all I've ever recieved is a small card that basically say's "it's that time of year again". It doesn't ask for a specific amount. When I moved out here in 92, a couple of the locals told me $25.00/household a year was the accepted donation. I don't think a donation entitles one to actual membership.
I wonder what would happen if they showed up at a fire and the owner told them to let it burn. A Sheriff, or Fire Marshall would no doubt be called and give an OK to go in for the interest of public safety. But could they make that bill stick?

 

[Bird]

Re: VFD\'s

Richard & Ernie, that's an interesting concept. When I spoke of "members" I was talking about the few people who actively participate, i.e,. respond to calls, attend the regular monthly meetings, etc. and there are no dues to be paid. The residents served by the VFD pay nothing anytime, unless they wish to make voluntary contributions. Many of them never contribute a nickel, while two or three people have donated over $10K in the past 3 years. Most of the donations are $10 to $100. And a lot of people donate merchandise to be sold at the annual garage sale (or rummage sale).

Many of our VFDs have no ambulance; however, one small town nearby does have a very modern, well equipped ambulance and when they respond anywhere in the area, there is no charge. Our regular ambulance service in the town and the entire county, as well as several other counties, is a private enterprise and when they respond, the bill will be $150 and up. However, they have an annual membership you can buy for $44 per year (and we do), so if anyone in our household needs ambulance service, they bill your insurance carrier, Medicare, or Medicaid, if you have such, but you never get a bill. In other words, they accept whatever your insurance pays, and if you have no insurance, but are paying the $44 annual dues, that's all they get.

Bird

 

[foz]

Re: VFD\'s

ERNIEB - first off, i'm from western new York area, been a volunteer for 17 years. 1 - how the VFD raise money varies from department to department, we do NOT have any donation/member organizations in NY. Most VFD either are run by fire commissioners that are voted in by the town, or they are a corporation which contracts with the town to protect a certain area. 2 - as far as authority, at least here, VFD can NOT issue a citation, however our policy is that a chief or assistant chief check out a complaint (ie open burning of debris/brush/etc) and advise the person responsible that what they are doing is illegal (in a professional manner of course) and if the party in question doesn't wish to comply, then the PD is notified & they will issue a citation. On a fire scene or emergency in NY the fire chief has command of the incident, that is your property becomes that of the Chief or highest ranking officer on scene until the incident is contained, except for Emergency Medical calls. 3 - here we have blue lights for firemen which are merely courtesy lights you do NOT need to pull over & red lights for Chief officers which allow the same authority for driving as a police officer & in some cases more (but driver is still responsible for his/her actions) 4 - as far as overkill on equipment & training, most of it is mandated these days by OSHA and NFPA to meet certain training criteria. Hope i wasn't too long winded but this might help clear things up a little.

 

[ERNIEB]

Re: VFD\'s

Bird,
I had to chuckle at how your VFD started out, because as a youngster in southwest Bexar Co. that is exactly how I remember the VFD. I left just about the time they got the firehouse built. I now live in the Eastern part of Bexar, and it's just very diferent. It's like when I went to high school, our senior class was 48 kids. Discipline came in the form of a large Coach with a large paddle. Our local ISD here has it's own Police Dept. It's quite a change.
To get back to the topic, I may be just be in some unusual circumstances here. I think it was about the time I moved out here that the county started giving money to the VFD's. Bexar County has a very strong and vocal taxpayer watchdog group that was against it. But, they didn't want to pay for a prof.FD either so it finally was passed. Many of the VFD's in the county do have EMS units, and about 1 1/2 years ago the County chose to use a private company for ambulance service. Most of the VFD's still have their EMS units, but I don't know if they still get monthly money for them.
Considering the time and money these VFD folks have put in, they may feel like they're being threatened by some very ungratefull people. Under those conditions I too may feel like retreating into my own group and circling the wagons. But thats just speculation on my part.

 

[ERNIEB]

Re: VFD\'s

foz,
In New York, then the VFD is under at least indirect control of the voters. I do not think the same can be said for Texas. Bird would probably know better, but I think here they are a private orginization.
I also liked what you said about the property belonging to the highest ranking officer. It might be off the subject, but it's funny, I'll bet property laws are not that different from State to State, but how the people view those laws is very different. If you were to say that to some of these South Texas ranchers, you better be ready for a fight. Anyway good comments.
Ernie

 

[Richard]

Re: VFD\'s

EarnieB

I don't know about any participation. My suspicion is no, that what Bird has said is probably more of my reality and I'm just ignorant of what's going on. (seriously)

What Bird said about the fees/ambulance service etc...is also accurate for us. My better half (can she REALLY be a better half if she won't let me get a tractor????/w3tcompact/icons/mad.gif) anyway, her Aunt passed away, ambulance came and sent no bill since Aunt was also "member".

Richard

 

[RobertN]

Re: VFD\'s

Ernie,
I'm not totally sure how to answer your questions. But, I can give a little insight from where I'm at. I'm a volunteer in a distric where most of our stations have a paid staff. As volunteers, we supplement that staffing. We usaully go out after our first-out/paid staff engine goes on a incident. Of the twelve stations in our district, three are unstaffed,volunteer only.

I would happily help you put out a grass fire. But, I will remind you that a LOT of people, Fire Fighters or not, have been hurt becuase they didn't have the right training, or Safety gear.

I went through a six month training session to be a volunteer in my district. Four months were two nites a week, 4 hours a nite. The rest was 8-10 hours every saturday do practical exercises. My training left me just a little short of Calif Fire Fighter-1 certification; they wanted everyone to finish up in thier respective station so they became comfortable with the rest of thier crew, and vica versa. Now, in addition, I have training 1st and 3rd Teusday of each month for 2-4 hours.

Our district takes care of all of our basic equipment needs. It is based off of a tax structure. We do, however, accept donations, and do fundraisers to buy additional equipment for our volunteer engine and crew.

In our station, we are 70% 30-40 yr old, volunteers. We have about 30% that are just out of school, and looking to make thier way into the fire service as a paid professional.

sometimes time is tight for me. Recently, I have been helping my wife who badly injured her knee. I have'nt been to the station much. But, this last weekend, I spent 6 hours on saturday just on training and running calls, riding along with the paid crew. It goes in waves/cycles...

In our district, if I found you were doing something wrong, I would not site you. I would call in our Battalion Chief, and he would work the issue. If he was not available, then the Sheriff would be called. Our Chief and Battalion Chiefs are hired by the district. I'm not sure how they get authority; I'll have to ask.

We will go out on any call. We provide mutual aid to seven other districts that I know of. Three of those districs around us are volunteer only. You will probably see our engine there first, and then thier volunteer engine as get resources to staff it. Our volunteers consist of First Responders, EMT's, and a paramedic.

Regarding a Code-3 response in a personal vehicle, we don't do it. I have heard of districts that do. But, we have a first out engine, and mutual aid engines available. If we are paged, we are urged to get to the stations quickly, but without violating speed ordinances.

I don't know if that answers your questions, but it is a little over view of things in our N.Calif district

RobertN in Shingle Springs Calif

 

[ERNIEB]

Re: VFD\'s

Robert.
I would say that's a darn good answer to my question. I would only add that, yes I very aware of the dangers of grass-brush fires. As a youngster growing up in South Texas there was quite a few, and still are for that matter. In those days, before any VFD's, they were fought by a bunch of farmers and ranchers with nothing more than wet burlap feed sacks. Also one of my favorite authors, Aldo Leopold, died fighting a grass fire on a neighbors farm. So, your point is well taken, it should be left to the Pro's. Having said that, I'll again say if a neighbor needed my help I would go. It's just the way I was raised.
Ernie