viability of building a 30-40 hp electric utility tractor?

[pilot-werx]

The best way would be a co-gen setup. Back in school we did trials using a mini gas turbine to turn an electric generator to charge batteries to turn electric motors on an atv. The turbine was duel fuel burning both liquid (K1, vegie oil, diesel) or gas (propane). Worked great,turbines are simple, and the torque from the motors was outstanding...

Could be an option.....

 

[rambler]

Electric is a good possible option for gasoline type mobile vehicles - cars, basic small transport. Short distances.

Electric is _not_ a good option for heavy all day pulling, or heavy loads going across the country. It is not a good option for typical diesel engine stuff.

A car might have 200 hp, but often only is using 20 hp; often is only idling doing nothing. Electric can handle the peak power needs, and current battery technology can almost handle the typical 20 hp needs for shorter commutes.

A tractor should typically be run at full rpm under full load for anyhow 7.5 hours of the 8 hours you ask for. This is not something current battery technology can deal with, not even close. The electric motor is actually better at handling the power loads; but not the batteries. If you could trail a cord, the motor would do great - however do we want to saddle our electric infrastructure with those kinds of power demands?

A car will use power spikes with mostly low power uses, and really often enough no power needed. Current battery technology can just about deal with this.

A tractor needs full power most all day long, which a whole different thing, and batteries just can't deal with that.

I have to chuckle - or cry - at the 'zero emissions' junk some try to attribute to electric vehicles. Distribution of electricity is not terribly efficient; recharge needs of a national fleet of vehicles will greatly change out standby power needs, generating needs, etc.; battery manufature takes a lot of exotic resources; and so on.

Most current battery hybred cars - like Preus - leave a bigger footprint than a similar, efficent, gas or diesel only vehicle. Likewise with an all-electric car, _if_ you factor in the manufature of the exotic materials.

No, I'm not saying we should not bother trying, but let's keep the experiments in the lab until we actually find something that is an actual improvement over the gas & diesel stuff we have now!

--->Paul

 

[candersen10]

Electric is a good possible option for gasoline type mobile vehicles - cars, basic small transport. Short distances.

Electric is _not_ a good option for heavy all day pulling, or heavy loads going across the country. It is not a good option for typical diesel engine stuff.

A car might have 200 hp, but often only is using 20 hp; often is only idling doing nothing. Electric can handle the peak power needs, and current battery technology can almost handle the typical 20 hp needs for shorter commutes.

A tractor should typically be run at full rpm under full load for anyhow 7.5 hours of the 8 hours you ask for. This is not something current battery technology can deal with, not even close. The electric motor is actually better at handling the power loads; but not the batteries. If you could trail a cord, the motor would do great - however do we want to saddle our electric infrastructure with those kinds of power demands?

A car will use power spikes with mostly low power uses, and really often enough no power needed. Current battery technology can just about deal with this.

A tractor needs full power most all day long, which a whole different thing, and batteries just can't deal with that.

I have to chuckle - or cry - at the 'zero emissions' junk some try to attribute to electric vehicles. Distribution of electricity is not terribly efficient; recharge needs of a national fleet of vehicles will greatly change out standby power needs, generating needs, etc.; battery manufature takes a lot of exotic resources; and so on.

Most current battery hybred cars - like Preus - leave a bigger footprint than a similar, efficent, gas or diesel only vehicle. Likewise with an all-electric car, _if_ you factor in the manufature of the exotic materials.

No, I'm not saying we should not bother trying, but let's keep the experiments in the lab until we actually find something that is an actual improvement over the gas & diesel stuff we have now!

--->Paul

I've given my equipment usage a lot of thought; while plowing, discing, mowing and some other uses do require high energy output, activities like FEL work, cultivation(mechanical weed removal), planting, and spraying do not require high energy output. Thus, I agree with your notion that current battery technology cannot yield peak output all day long, however, many usages don't require that a tractor need full power all day long.

I agree with your statement "I have to chuckle - or cry - at the 'zero emissions' junk some try to attribute to electric vehicles" in certain contexts. Yes, coal fired plants produce a huge portion of our grid's electricity (49% according to the NREL), yes, the grid does not efficiently distribute electricity, and yes, manufacturing batteries can be a very messy process. However, you cannot use shortcomings of the current generation of an existing technology to suggest that it will not improve going into the future. The generation of electricity can and in some areas is being shifted towards alternative energy sources that are more efficient and input free. The grid can absolutely be improved (to begin with HVDC lines rather than AC lines can be used to connect grids that are separated by over a thousand miles in order to even out peaks and lulls in demand). Wireless transmission of electricity might well solve the battery problem.

I understand many of the shortcomings of electric technology. Passively saying that labs will experiment and produce a solution, however, is a frustrating and narrow-minded approach. Input free agriculture is incredibly appealing from an economic perspective and thus it seems that companies must start producing these technologies, even if they are somewhat primitive. The first generation of tractors (steam, gas, kerosene, etc) all seemed primitive and useless next to a well trained horse. However, the technology quickly improved because people saw its potential and channeled huge amounts of resources towards producing better tractors. This needs to happen now with alternative energy tractors.

Do people think that hydrogen tractors might be a better approach? What other technologies currently show promise?

 

[candersen10]

It is somewhere between sad and humorous that when you talk about American ingenuity, you link to a Japanese company

It's a global economy

 

[rambler]

I comingled my responce to you with a soapbox comment about current advertising of zero-emmisions vehicles.... Sorry I did that!

Getting to be a lot of windmills around me here in southern MN. To the point people are objecting to them. Same objections as with any other construction.

Well anyhow.

An electric tractor would be cool, and backyard tinkering is cool.

I run a farm - not big, but it's a real farm. I use 3 tractors made in the 1970's, one in the '90s (my compact New Holland that brings me to these forms...) and 4 made in the late 1940's early 50's.

This works well for smaller, simpler farming. I don't see electric with batteries lasting so long. The whole battery thing is just a mess, really, in my opinion. We would turn farming into a throw-away ecconomy, which would not be efficient.

Hydrogen would seem more promising to me - a stable thing can be made of a hydrogen engine. Batteries - just not stable enough for me. I don't believe we can get batteries that can power a tractor for 8 hours at a cost effecting price in my lifetime.

Change is kind of a scary thing for a farmer, you take away all the efficiencies & structure of the current enterprise.

It was difficult for many to switch from horses, as well.

--->Paul

 

[dangerdoc]

I comingled my responce to you with a soapbox comment about current advertising of zero-emmisions vehicles.... Sorry I did that!

Getting to be a lot of windmills around me here in southern MN. To the point people are objecting to them. Same objections as with any other construction.

Well anyhow.

An electric tractor would be cool, and backyard tinkering is cool.

I run a farm - not big, but it's a real farm. I use 3 tractors made in the 1970's, one in the '90s (my compact New Holland that brings me to these forms...) and 4 made in the late 1940's early 50's.

This works well for smaller, simpler farming. I don't see electric with batteries lasting so long. The whole battery thing is just a mess, really, in my opinion. We would turn farming into a throw-away ecconomy, which would not be efficient.

Hydrogen would seem more promising to me - a stable thing can be made of a hydrogen engine. Batteries - just not stable enough for me. I don't believe we can get batteries that can power a tractor for 8 hours at a cost effecting price in my lifetime.

Change is kind of a scary thing for a farmer, you take away all the efficiencies & structure of the current enterprise.

It was difficult for many to switch from horses, as well.

--->Paul

Google FEMA and gasifier. You will find emergency plans for running a standard tractor from any biomass you have handy on the farm. They even have a picture of an old Ford tractor (probably new when the plans were first published) out turning the soil powered with wood chips.

I don't think time invested would pay unless diesel becomes scarce but with some scrap and parts that can be found in any hardware store, you can work your land with fuel that comes right off the farm.

 

[rambler]

I don't think time invested would pay unless diesel becomes scarce but with some scrap and parts that can be found in any hardware store, you can work your land with fuel that comes right off the farm.

My uncle - long gone unfortunately, he was a cool guy - ran an old grove car on wood gas back in the war years (WWII). Lot of things like tires, fuel, we rationed. I don't know that he got it working well, but he got it working back then, could go to town once in a while without using any of the gas that was rationed.

--->Paul

 

[dangerdoc]

My uncle - long gone unfortunately, he was a cool guy - ran an old grove car on wood gas back in the war years (WWII). Lot of things like tires, fuel, we rationed. I don't know that he got it working well, but he got it working back then, could go to town once in a while without using any of the gas that was rationed.

--->Paul

My father-in-law was in Europe after the war and remembers the buses running on charcoal gas powered engines.

I started building a stationary gasifier with plans to run a whiz bang generator for when the power is down.

I never built the gas cleaner and was concerned about ruining the engine for the generator. Unfortunately another project I will never finish, I let the scrapper have the whole mess when I cleaned out the barn a couple of years ago.

I'm not sure that it would be posible to run a car built later than the 70's because of all the electronics but I suppose I could get the old Ford pickup motivating off of wood or charcoal if things fall apart.

I traded back for an old Farmall gas engine tractor that could also be converted.

I'm not sure that you could compress enough hydrogen in a tank to get much work done in a tractor but pass hot steam over charcoal and you get hydrogen and carbon monoxide which will burn cleanly in a regular engine.