Virgin Ground

[deereman10]

Anyone got any suggestions for breaking up virgin ground by another means besides a moldboard plow?

 

[IslandTractor]

There is not too much truly "virgin" ground. If you are talking about land that has not been plowed or farmed for decades then there are options once you have cleared the brush and trees/stumps. While a plow is traditional, you can also use just a tiller if the conditions allow (not a lot of big roots etc). Disking is also an alternative and some people even use subsoilers or just a boxblade with the tines all the way down. Depends on what you are trying to acheive and what your equipment/budget is like. Again, it depends on what you are trying to do (clear for lawn vs farm or pasture for example). Lots to read on no till farming techniques too so it may not even be necessary to "bust sod".

 

[deereman10]

i guess you are right, it's not "virgin" ground it just hasnt been farmed for 40 years. It's a 7 acre field that i want to put pumpkins in. I have been looking at tillers for my JD 2440 and i'm liking the king kutter 5' or 6' tillers. I thought about discing it but discs are mainly for leveling ground not tearing it up.

 

[sweettractors]

Anyone got any suggestions for breaking up virgin ground by another means besides a moldboard plow?

The disc plow was designed for what you are describing. Here is one that we have on Ebay currently. Ken Sweet
Ferguson 2 Disc Plow With 3 Point Hitch and Scrappers - eBay (item 150557233618 end time Mar-03-11 11:49:31 PST)

 

[Agrantina]

I have used both a disc and a friends 4ft tiller... I used a disc this past year but have bought a tiller and will use it this spring. My disc did fine but did have to go over it a few times.. I sprayed round up and then disc once a week a few weeks in a row and it looked great after.. Now the disc is great for my 3ac plot but I have several that are small and curve around..I am really looking forward using the tiller on these cured -S- shaped plots that I have..

AndyG

 

[blueriver]

I thought about discing it but discs are mainly for leveling ground not tearing it up.

Not excatly ... I use a disc often to tear up the ground ... I level it with a drag harrow before planting.

Best choice a moldboard plow, then second I would use a chisel plow, third a shank type digger ... or a subsoiler or a disc to tear it up and make the seed bed.

 

[deereman10]

anyone use a disc plow? what makes it better/worse/different than a moldboard?

 

[blueriver]

I used on about 15 yrs ago ... I preferred the moldboard ... maybe just because my G'dad and my dad used the MB plow. It seemed harder to pull and gave me the impression that the rotating disc wanted to push the rear of the tractor to the side .. JMO

 

[sweettractors]

I feel I can jump in on this "discing" subject because I have first hand knowledge. When I was raising tobacco, we normally prepared the field (seedbed) with multiple passes with a disc harrow before planting. After several years of noticing that about every 3-4 th row had all plants stunted all the way till harvest. After much investigation, I found that those stunted rows were exactly where the rear tractor tires had ran over the field on the last prep pass with the disc harrow. I solved the problem by deep tilling (8-12 inches) the soil with a Shank ripper with tines spaced about 8-10 inches apart. This opened the soil back up for better plant growth for the entire season. Long story short, multiple passes with a disc harrow will compact your soil,thus leading to poor growth of the crop and deep tilling or subsoiling is about the only way to alleviate that problem. Ken Sweet

 

[blueriver]

I feel I can jump in on this "discing" subject because I have first hand knowledge. When I was raising tobacco, we normally prepared the field (seedbed) with multiple passes with a disc harrow before planting. After several years of noticing that about every 3-4 th row had all plants stunted all the way till harvest. After much investigation, I found that those stunted rows were exactly where the rear tractor tires had ran over the field on the last prep pass with the disc harrow. I solved the problem by deep tilling (8-12 inches) the soil with a Shank ripper with tines spaced about 8-10 inches apart. This opened the soil back up for better plant growth for the entire season. Long story short, multiple passes with a disc harrow will compact your soil,thus leading to poor growth of the crop and deep tilling or subsoiling is about the only way to alleviate that problem. Ken Sweet

Ken ... Thanks. A disc harrow is great and will tear up the ground ... However one must go ahead and do some serious tilling somewhere along the line.

 

[hcraig]

My experience is any thing that rolls tends to create a hardpan quicker than a plow. Multiple disking may look like you have alot of loose dirt but alot of it is just fluff. I would vote for a moldboard or chisel plow. The disk plow is also good, better than a disk harrow.

Also the less passes you have to make the better. Seven acres sounds like a large amount for a pto tiller. I have done small garden plots with mine. Going from sod to a seed bed in 3 or 4 passes.

 

[IslandTractor]

. Seven acres sounds like a large amount for a pto tiller. I have done small garden plots with mine. Going from sod to a seed bed in 3 or 4 passes.

I agree. I did about half an acre of "virgin" soil (abandoned farm for about 20 years) and found I needed to run the tiller two or three times to break up the soil and get the brush roots out (initial prep was bush hog). Half an acre with a 6ft tiller still took several hours at least. Part of the problem was large amounts of grape vine roots that wrapped around the tiller and required removing every 50-100 yards on the initial pass. The KK tiller worked fine but I would be looking at something like what Ken recommends to do the initial sod busting if I were doing more than an acre in the future.

 

[jenkinsph]

I would use a large diameter tiller that covers your tracks and make two passes, done. Something along the lines of a Deere 681 should match your tractor.

 

[Redneck in training]

We are restoring prairie on 31 ac of land that was last farmed also about 35 years ago. We hired a bulldozer, removed all trees and bushes, filled all erosion etc. Then we pulled remaining roots and saplings out of ground. That was a lot of manual hard labor. Then we planted roundup ready beans. Sprayed it twice (due to rainy weather that washed the roundup) to kill all weeds and non native grasses. Since some non native plants are still sprouting at some places we will do beans one more time this years and plant prairie grass and flowers after that. All is done by no till method with disking only at few places to flatten too bumpy ground. Since the beans price ($12/bushel at 50 bushels /ac) was quite high this year the profit will pay for almost all the investment we will spend in the restoration.

 

[bp fick]

Other than being lumbered off during the 1880s, our land has never been farmed or tilled. I break up new ground with a middle buster. Hardly ideal, but it gets done.

But if I was going to till 7 acres, I'd have a conventional plow, a disk, a spring or spike harrow to drag. Absolutely. There'd be no fussing around. Can't go over it and over it with the wrong implement.
-Compaction
-Diesel cost

 

[TripleR]

If your ground has "laid out" that long, you may want to get someone to come in with a deep subsoiler. We have to run one of these about every two to three years due to soil compaction. I am going to get a much smaller one for our Kubotas as this JD belongs to our renters and won't fit in a lot of places on our other farm.

We found a good used 3-bottom moldboard several years ago that works well, but it doesn't get deep enough to break up the hard pan.

 

[deereman10]

What if i moldboard plow the 7 acres first then take the tiller to it? basically the same as discing and dragging only i think the soil would have more fluff to it this way. What do you think?

 

[Gary Fowler]

I believe the disc plow that Ken Sweet advertised was originally designed for deep plowing in "new Ground" which still had the occassional underground stump and large root. The disc would simple roll up and over it and not stall the tractor or shear pins like on the moldboard plows. As far as pulling sideways, they pulled just like moldboard as best I remember. The would cut deep and the 2 pan plows we had we pulled with an 8N Ford. All types of plows, tend to form a hard pan over the years as the limit of the penetration in same year after year. As stated, whatever type of of tillage you use, evey few years, it is necessary to do deep tillage if you want to break the hard pan for deep root growth. Chisel plows and subsoilers will do the trick when the time comes for this, but this might be easier done with a larger machine if the plot is several acres. Most CUT arent going to pull more than 2 subsoilers when you drop them into hardpan at 16-18" deep. I am not even sure that one needs to go that deep for most garden plants and most tillers, disc harrows etc seem to do fine for garden plots.

 

[bp fick]

A multiple point chisel plow set up would be awesome, but takes lots of grunt to pull. Gotta watch out for roots on near "virgin" soil too.

Tillers are great, but doing 7 acres will take lots and lots of fuel and time.

 

[TripleR]

A multiple point chisel plow set up would be awesome, but takes lots of grunt to pull. Gotta watch out for roots on near "virgin" soil too.

Tillers are great, but doing 7 acres will take lots and lots of fuel and time.

The one we used when I was farming had trips and heavy springs to reset and it did take more power than you would think.