Really long story short- new tractor, new W.R. Long 3rd function remote at the FEL and new rock grapple bucket. System worked fine for first couple hours of intermittent grapple operation. I didn't like how the electric button worked, with press the top rocker switch position to close the grapple and press the bottom of the switch to open it. So I took the FEL control handle apart and swap the wires on the switch. When I put it back together, now the grapple intermittently and consistently will not work.
Over the last 10 days the hydraulic cylinder would intermittently do the following and not in any particular order, nor associated with any apparent action on my part:
- Would extend and not retract (most of the time)
- Would retract and not extend (some of the time)
- Would retract very slowly, taking ~ 60 - 90 seconds to open the grapple fully (rarely). And the solenoid/valve assembly did not make its typical "clunking" sound when activated. I had plenty of hydraulic fluid and no other function on the tractor has issues. I was able to raise and lower the 710# RO BB at will with no issues, along with the FEL.
- Most of the time the electric/hydraulic solenoid would make its "clunking" sound when the cylinder was activated, as expected, but sometimes it would not. When it was not making its normal sound, it usually was associated with the cylinder not working properly, but not always.
Initially I thought the dealer had installed the electrical Faston connectors incorrectly, as the problem started after I switched the terminal connections around. And then I thought with the cylinder extend and retract issues, the common point would be 12VDC power, which is common, as the solenoid provides ground. I even stripped some insulation back from the wires close to the solenoid and verified the wiring was good to that point at the sealed inputs, to no avail.
At this point I was convinced it was not a power problem and not something I had done when I switched the connections in the FEL handle. But is sure was quite a coincidence.
I also did not think it was the solenoid as there were issues in both cylinder directions and it was unlikely two fairly discrete circuits would have the similar failing issues.
By this time I figured the hydraulic valve was probably actuated magnetically and was the "clunking" sound I was used to hearing upon activation. And that everything from the solenoid back to the loader handle was good.
Now this only left the actual hydraulic valve assembly, which I knew nothing about its internal construction as this is my first brush with hydraulics. In my mind I pictured the valve with a single piston, operating within a single cylinder. And when the solenoid was activated. the piston would be pulled one way or the other, which would open an exit port and the fluid would flow out that port. Else the piston would be centered and blocking both exit channels. With this in mind, I came to the conclusion the piston and its bore were either in a situation of stacked clearances causing too little clearance or else a machining issue with a burr or something left at an interference point.
My very good dealer who is 150 miles away also felt the issue was in the valve assembly and he was going to have Long's ship me the entire assembly and I would replace it.
Long's and my dealer wanted me to check a couple more things, one of which was to disconnect and reconnect the 3rd function remotes at the grapple cylinder and also at the junction point that would allow the FEL to be removed. My dealer, Ron at West End Sales (great folks) told me he has never seen a bad W.R Long hydraulic valve or solenoid assembly and that they install a lot of them- but there is always a first... He further stated that he has seen a 100 or more times of hydraulic failures in the quick disconnect hydraulic coupling. Apparently if one of the coupling ball assemblies fails to mate properly when the male and female portions are connected, it can/will cause hydraulic flow failures. And their mechanic also said that a coupling being hit hard with something could unseat the connection just enough to cause hydraulic flow failures, yet may not leak fluid nor show any signs of a physical problem.
I was dubious, but dutifully did all that was asked, which included reseating these two pairs of hydraulic fittings. I did notice that one coupling (1/2" flat face skid steer) at the grapple was difficult to release and may have had pressure on it. I fiddled with it for a few minutes and rotating the collar seem to free it up and I was able to complete this task. I did not lose any hydraulic oil.
I started the tractor and the grapple worked perfectly. I then took it out to do a little work and it still functioned perfectly. I hope it stays fixed and that a coupling issue was the culprit. But am leary as the issue originally did not crop up for several hours after first use. But it has been more reliable now than it ever was. Time will tell.
Also, as a troubleshooting aid for the W.R. Long solenoid, if one presses in with a phillips screwdriver on that small brass button at the end of the solenoid, it is supposed to activate the valve in one direction and then one can press the same type of button on the other end of the valve to move the cylinder in the opposite direction. I have yet to try this but it is an excellent troubleshooting tip.
Over the last 10 days the hydraulic cylinder would intermittently do the following and not in any particular order, nor associated with any apparent action on my part:
- Would extend and not retract (most of the time)
- Would retract and not extend (some of the time)
- Would retract very slowly, taking ~ 60 - 90 seconds to open the grapple fully (rarely). And the solenoid/valve assembly did not make its typical "clunking" sound when activated. I had plenty of hydraulic fluid and no other function on the tractor has issues. I was able to raise and lower the 710# RO BB at will with no issues, along with the FEL.
- Most of the time the electric/hydraulic solenoid would make its "clunking" sound when the cylinder was activated, as expected, but sometimes it would not. When it was not making its normal sound, it usually was associated with the cylinder not working properly, but not always.
Initially I thought the dealer had installed the electrical Faston connectors incorrectly, as the problem started after I switched the terminal connections around. And then I thought with the cylinder extend and retract issues, the common point would be 12VDC power, which is common, as the solenoid provides ground. I even stripped some insulation back from the wires close to the solenoid and verified the wiring was good to that point at the sealed inputs, to no avail.
At this point I was convinced it was not a power problem and not something I had done when I switched the connections in the FEL handle. But is sure was quite a coincidence.
I also did not think it was the solenoid as there were issues in both cylinder directions and it was unlikely two fairly discrete circuits would have the similar failing issues.
By this time I figured the hydraulic valve was probably actuated magnetically and was the "clunking" sound I was used to hearing upon activation. And that everything from the solenoid back to the loader handle was good.
Now this only left the actual hydraulic valve assembly, which I knew nothing about its internal construction as this is my first brush with hydraulics. In my mind I pictured the valve with a single piston, operating within a single cylinder. And when the solenoid was activated. the piston would be pulled one way or the other, which would open an exit port and the fluid would flow out that port. Else the piston would be centered and blocking both exit channels. With this in mind, I came to the conclusion the piston and its bore were either in a situation of stacked clearances causing too little clearance or else a machining issue with a burr or something left at an interference point.
My very good dealer who is 150 miles away also felt the issue was in the valve assembly and he was going to have Long's ship me the entire assembly and I would replace it.
Long's and my dealer wanted me to check a couple more things, one of which was to disconnect and reconnect the 3rd function remotes at the grapple cylinder and also at the junction point that would allow the FEL to be removed. My dealer, Ron at West End Sales (great folks) told me he has never seen a bad W.R Long hydraulic valve or solenoid assembly and that they install a lot of them- but there is always a first... He further stated that he has seen a 100 or more times of hydraulic failures in the quick disconnect hydraulic coupling. Apparently if one of the coupling ball assemblies fails to mate properly when the male and female portions are connected, it can/will cause hydraulic flow failures. And their mechanic also said that a coupling being hit hard with something could unseat the connection just enough to cause hydraulic flow failures, yet may not leak fluid nor show any signs of a physical problem.
I was dubious, but dutifully did all that was asked, which included reseating these two pairs of hydraulic fittings. I did notice that one coupling (1/2" flat face skid steer) at the grapple was difficult to release and may have had pressure on it. I fiddled with it for a few minutes and rotating the collar seem to free it up and I was able to complete this task. I did not lose any hydraulic oil.
I started the tractor and the grapple worked perfectly. I then took it out to do a little work and it still functioned perfectly. I hope it stays fixed and that a coupling issue was the culprit. But am leary as the issue originally did not crop up for several hours after first use. But it has been more reliable now than it ever was. Time will tell.
Also, as a troubleshooting aid for the W.R. Long solenoid, if one presses in with a phillips screwdriver on that small brass button at the end of the solenoid, it is supposed to activate the valve in one direction and then one can press the same type of button on the other end of the valve to move the cylinder in the opposite direction. I have yet to try this but it is an excellent troubleshooting tip.
