Wal Mart disaster relief.

[Sigarms]

I don’t know the answer… only that I was surprised at how much power out city Fire Chief has in a very broad way…

Last week the Fire Chief called in air support for a 5 acre hillside Fire 100% inside urban city limits… C130 tanker and helicopters with water.

He ordered the air space closed to aviation except for air support for the 5 alarm wild-land interface zone.

33 years ago to the day 3000 homes in city limits lost in a similar situation

When you're calling in C130 tankers and helicopters to fight a fire, it makes complete common sense to to have the air space closed.

However, if it's one or two days after a major flood and you have one helicopter at your disposal to try and help, does it make much sense to close off the air space when you don't have any help in the air to begin with?

Worst case, close the air space and use that dang helicopter at your disposal until more air support can arrive.

 

[ultrarunner]

When you're calling in C130 tankers and helicopters to fight a fire, it makes complete common sense to to have the air space closed.

However, if it's one or two days after a major flood and you have one helicopter at your disposal to try and help, does it make much sense to close off the air space when you don't have any help in the air to begin with?

Worst case, close the air space and use that dang helicopter at your disposal until more air support can arrive.

Reminds me of the time a police officer was running after a much younger guy and I happened to be driving by in my pickup…

I stopped and yelled jump in and the officer hopped in and I sped up a block and half and he jumped out and waived me off…

I wasn’t commandeered but my assistance was greatly appreciated…

 

[Sigarms]

I wasn’t commandeered but my assistance was greatly appreciated…

If you have help and it wasn't asked for, as long as you aren't endangering yourself or your help, common sense dictates you use that help.

One could argue that when that police officer hopped in your truck bed, unless he was restrained in that truck bed, you guys were breaking the law

Of course you used quick thinking common sense given the environment

 

[ultrarunner]

If you have help and it wasn't asked for, as long as you aren't endangering yourself or your help, common sense dictates you use that help.

One could argue that when that police officer hopped in your truck bed, unless he was restrained in that truck bed, you guys were breaking the law

Of course you used quick thinking common sense given the environment

Yep… I could see he was running out of steam and my step side made it a no brainer.

It’s like people stepping up to pull fire hose or open a hydrant when signaled.

 

[Sigarms]

It’s like people stepping up to pull fire hose or open a hydrant when signaled.

Or some people parking directly in front of a fire hydrant and not figuring out that the fire hydrant may be kind of important if needed...

End of day, one thing I still remember from college is the peter principal.

Thing is, let the management go on the peter principal, and we still have stupid people roaming the earth in higher than normal averages IMO.

These stupid people can sometimes be in power over others, be it locally, by state or federal goverment

 

[jyoutz]

Can a local fire department chief make decisions for a federal agency, such as setting up a no flight zone?

Lake lure has a population of 1,500 people. They show to have 2 full time fire fighters with 23 part time firefighters. I don't know the process, but I'd be scratching my head if every local fire department could set up a no fly zone and exactly how that is communicated with the FAA.

What I do know in the civilian world is give a guy a "badge" with power and be careful. Know nothing about flight regulations, but I do get asked about local codes pertaining to my industry. I always start off by telling someone that I can tell them what the code is, BUT... even if you're right and the county inspector is wrong, it will get you no where but to put a target on your back if you prove the inspector wrong because he can make your life miserable down the road. Better or worse, the way a lot of people are wired.

The incident command system is set up based on occupational qualifications and training. An incident commander on a federal incident management team could be a local fire chief, a federal forester or firefighter, or a state forestry person. The jobs on the team are the same way. Annually the teams are assembled. When a local authority requests an incident management team, they sign a document with the incident commander giving operational control over to the team. When the team has the incident under control, another document is signed turning management jurisdictions back to the local authorities. During the ongoing management of an incident, local authorities attend daily strategy meetings to interact with the team.

 

[Engineer42]

The incident command system is set up based on occupational qualifications and training. An incident commander on a federal incident management team could be a local fire chief, a federal forester or firefighter, or a state forestry person. The jobs on the team are the same way. Annually the teams are assembled. When a local authority requests an incident management team, they sign a document with the incident commander giving operational control over to the team. When the team has the incident under control, another document is signed turning management jurisdictions back to the local authorities. During the ongoing management of an incident, local authorities attend daily strategy meetings to interact with the team.

And that's a condensed description of NIMS.

 

[paulsharvey]

I have Not read all the way, but I have skimmed much of the thread; and there is a fundamental misunderstanding of FEMA by many people.

FEMA doesn't Do anything; they reimburse the local government agency (state, county, city). FEMA doesn't clear debris, direct contractors generally, plan, or frankly coordinate.

Nobody wants to hear this; but the counties and the states Should have been more prepared, and had emergency contracts in place, material stockpiles, cut and toss crews, ect.

We jump through hoops down here in FLa for storms, and 90% of the time, we send the emergency contractors home with their base mobilzation pay, release the material stockpile holds, and pay the reserve fees, ect.

Now, I know they could Not have been ready ready, but they should have been more ready...

 

[paulsharvey]

I'm not trying to kick them while they are down; but GA, Alabama, N. Car, S. Car, Tenn, (and probably your local state if your outside the area), really should take a long hard look in the mirror, and have a real "lessons learned" from this. Sure, it's a 1 in 100 year event, but they didn't seem ready for a 1 in 50; or a 1 in 25 year event.

Maybe a bit biased, but... are people starting to rethink who actually should be considered a "first responder"? Utility workers, road workers, ect have to respond before fire rescue/ems/LEOs; but don't get the hazard pay, "special risk" retirement, or even the dang 10% discount at Bass Pro...

 

[California]

Worst case, close the air space and use that dang helicopter at your disposal until more air support can arrive.

I wonder if what we're seeing here was news aircraft getting in the way.