Want a new laptop but do I want Windows 8?

aczlan · Oct 29, 2013

CurlyDave said:
Tech Support is an interesting issue.
I used to live in the SF Bay area and there were many Apple stores I could take my computer, phone or tablet into and get excellent support from live technicians.
When I moved to rural Oregon, this was no longer a possibility, since the only stores are in the Portland area. But, every time I call on the phone, there is a person who lives in either the USA or Canada, and speaks excellent English that I can understand with no problem. If I call about any other computer, I reach someone in India, who speaks a totally different kind of English than I and who I can never understand. It seems that all the can do is read a script, if X is not working, do Y. If I do Y and that doesn't fix the problem, they are unable to go any further.
I will gladly pay the price of Apple gear because I don't need support very often and when I do it is my native language.
I remember the IBM scandal about 10 years ago where if a corporation bought computers, they had a number for support where someone in the US answered and helped. If you or I bought it as an individual the only support was in India.

Dell Business support with next day onsite service... They have been pretty good every time I have called/chatted with hardware problems (Mainly for Optiplex GX620s with bad power supply fans) and the people I have talked to have been US based.

Aaron Z

txdon · Oct 29, 2013

I was like Bird - same brand - on my last PC 5 years ago. I special order it and right out of the box it had issues, I called their customer support and they did not have a fix yet but were working on it. I boxed it up, and sent it back, and got a MAC. Sixdogs, remember to keep your receipt and find out the return policy and don't get mad when it freezes up - you do get what you pay for.

pacerron · Oct 29, 2013

aczlan said:
Dell Business support with next day onsite service... They have been pretty good every time I have called/chatted with hardware problems (Mainly for Optiplex GX620s with bad power supply fans) and the people I have talked to have been US based.

Aaron Z

In the home consumer market I like the little App that Dell includes in their units called "My Dell"
Your Service Tag number and Serial number are connected via the App and can be used to do a computer check up, be sure updated drivers are in place and installed from there, communicate with service, and other features. The one with W-8 even made a ghost image of the individual set up when asked that can be remotely applied. Hope to never need that part as it would go back to W-8 and I'd have to download the 8.1 update but it is good to have in reserve. It also generated and I burned on disks the system when new. About 10 Gig total so not a lot of goody apps to remove. Relatively clean system.
The shock of the Metro screen wore off within a couple hours and with 8.1 and a couple tweeks it is just as easy and looks like windows 7, but faster.

dmccarty · Oct 29, 2013

A few years ago I bought the kids two "used" laptops. The systems were the exact model I had been using at work so I knew they were reliable. I don't like buying used but I read the descriptions and the price was right. When the systems arrived it was obvious they had never been used. They had been taken out of the box, a company's software was installed and the system was put back in the box but never issued to an employee. I got lucky on that one for sure! :laughing::laughing::laughing:

I have not reformatted a system in well over a decade, whether the OS was Windows, Sun, AIX, or a Linux variant. Maybe back in the 90's I might have had to reformat a drive but I can't remember doing so because of an OS problem. The oldest system we have in the house is an IBM system running XP. I expect the hard drive to die any day now since that system has to be getting close to 10 years old. The oldest system I have at work is a Dell with Windows 2003 on it. None of these system have been reformatted. Prior to the Dell I had an IBM system running AIX that was from the 90's. It was a slow box compared to today's systems but it got the job done just fine. That system was finally taken out of service when it started having network hardware issues and it did not make money sense to repair. The AIX box had to be 15-20 years old when I powered it off and it had never been reformatted as far as I know. The OS had been upgraded a bunch of times but no formats.

Later,
Dan

Bird · Oct 29, 2013

In 1993, I bought a new IBM computer and it came with IBM's OS/2 2.0 and I pretty quickly dumped that and installed MSDOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1.

troutsqueezer · Oct 29, 2013

txdon said:
Sixdogs, remember to keep your receipt and find out the return policy and don't get mad when it freezes up - you do get what you pay for.

Let's cut to the chase: Job's entire philosophical drive surrounding technology innovation was guided by a tunnel vision mentality that placed form on such a high pedestal, that function always had to take a backseat. This can be demonstrated in so many ways it's just silly to sit here and shoot down the Apple fanboy posts one-by-one.

It's an old adage but entirely false. You don't always get what you pay for and Apple is a prime example of not getting value for your money. Apple computers work, if you don't mind doing things the Apple way, like transferring music. iTunes? Are you kidding me? Give me drag and drop any day. Did you know that Apple's Retina Macbook Pro was labeled the "least repairable laptop ever" by tear-down website iFixit?

The Apple computer is built to be ideally suited to suburban soccer moms who can't be bothered to learn how to operate their devices, and don't quite 'get' the internet. What's the first type of computer that pops into your mind when Grandma wants one?

Am I beating a dead horse by now? Probably, I should get back to reading about tractors which is why I come here.

woodlandfarms · Oct 29, 2013

Trout, I have followed your notes with interest and a lot of amusement. Your a PC guy, I am a mac. This won't change.

Jobs was a mean human being with tunnel vision. But he was a visionary whos goal was always function over form. Your statement, Form over Function, is truly about as far off beam as you can get.

Jobs stole the mouse, and implemented it into desktop systems. PC's were mousing around with the keyboard. Function over form.

Jobs stole the GUI. Again, function over form

Finally (and it isn't finally, there are thousands of other examples), Jobs standardized the GUI interface. No application was allowed to be made without the basic controls always in the same place. He abandoned F# for simple # control keyboard commands (meaning #C is cut #P is paste) simple easy to handle and common on EVERY application. You got on an old mac, you got a new mac, you running on 6 year old software, everything was in its place.

And as for your dismissal of the design work that Jobs pushed. It is beautiful, but hugely functional. The old MAC SE. Monitor and computer all in one. The colorful macs (yeah, kinda big but they weren't big ugly grey boxes anymore). The flat panel IMACS. And the laptops. Lighter, stronger more functional. The new tower Mac Pro. stunning design work, reducing platform size yet making the tower something I think quite beautiful.

Nope, I am gonna tell you you are far off the beam on this one. Mac is a leader, yes its a ferrari of sorts and yes, it isn't for people on a budget, but it works. And it sets trends (well, lets see if it will continue) it functions as sold, and pretty flawlessly, and, well, it looks good and when I walk into a high powered meeting and flop out my 15" retina, people ask to see the screen and want to pick it up and feel how light it is. No one is ask that from the Dell next to me.

Soundguy · Oct 29, 2013

pacerron said:
I'll second both lines of the above. Windows 7 will be supported til 2020.

i think that is being optimistic...

troutsqueezer · Oct 29, 2013

woodlandfarms said:
Trout, I have followed your notes with interest and a lot of amusement. Your a PC guy, I am a mac. This won't change.

Jobs was a mean human being with tunnel vision. But he was a visionary whos goal was always function over form. Your statement, Form over Function, is truly about as far off beam as you can get.

Jobs stole the mouse, and implemented it into desktop systems. PC's were mousing around with the keyboard. Function over form.

Jobs stole the GUI. Again, function over form

Finally (and it isn't finally, there are thousands of other examples), Jobs standardized the GUI interface. No application was allowed to be made without the basic controls always in the same place. He abandoned F# for simple # control keyboard commands (meaning #C is cut #P is paste) simple easy to handle and common on EVERY application. You got on an old mac, you got a new mac, you running on 6 year old software, everything was in its place.

And as for your dismissal of the design work that Jobs pushed. It is beautiful, but hugely functional. The old MAC SE. Monitor and computer all in one. The colorful macs (yeah, kinda big but they weren't big ugly grey boxes anymore). The flat panel IMACS. And the laptops. Lighter, stronger more functional. The new tower Mac Pro. stunning design work, reducing platform size yet making the tower something I think quite beautiful.

Nope, I am gonna tell you you are far off the beam on this one. Mac is a leader, yes its a ferrari of sorts and yes, it isn't for people on a budget, but it works. And it sets trends (well, lets see if it will continue) it functions as sold, and pretty flawlessly, and, well, it looks good and when I walk into a high powered meeting and flop out my 15" retina, people ask to see the screen and want to pick it up and feel how light it is. No one is ask that from the Dell next to me.

A good counterargument. It's what I like to see. You make some good points and some would be fun to explore further but perhaps for another thread sometime. I'm am here for the fun and this has been fun. :dance1: