Warranty Claims & Reliability

[IndyJay]

Agreed. The problem facing the consumers of this compact market segment is the high technology electronics that the federal government has pushed the tractor manufacturers into using to meet their final tier IV emissions standards. If you look at the industry as a whole, all the manufacturers have separated out all the engine electronics from the drive train and even bumper to bumper warranty, capping the warranty coverage to 5 years and will not let you purchase any additional warranty coverage. That says it all right there. They obviously know the electronic engine management system is the weak link and is the most prone to failure.

And also most prone to obsolescence.

 

[rScotty]

Agreed. The problem facing the consumers of this compact market segment is the high technology electronics that the federal government has pushed the tractor manufacturers into using to meet their final tier IV emissions standards. If you look at the industry as a whole, all the manufacturers have separated out all the engine electronics from the drive train and even bumper to bumper warranty, capping the warranty coverage to 5 years and will not let you purchase any additional warranty coverage. That says it all right there. They obviously know the electronic engine management system is the weak link and is the most prone to failure.

Right, the manufacturers have no choice but to build to government standards - but they do have choice in the way they choose to meet them.
They chose electronics over mechanical systems, and so "Progressive Farmer's" hit the nail on the head with their observation when they said,

"• Older tractors are often decades old but also are viewed as trusty and dependable workhorses that provide better bang for the buck."

I wonder when a brave manufacturer will offer a simple, owner repairable, low polluting, minimal electronic tractor designed to last a lifetime. Modern methods and technology today could make it sophisticated and comfortable as well as owner friendly.

It just might be an instant classic.

rScotty

 

[m1garand762]

POST THE NAME OF THE DEALER. LET'S GIVE QUALITY DEALERS ADDITIONAL BUSINESS.

Middlefield Farm and Garden

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

And also most prone to obsolescence.

Please explain...

 

[paulfun9]

So far I have been lucky and only had more minor or shall we say straight forward problems during the warrantee. All dealers and brands were about even in dealing with when compared. When the part gets here we will fix it and they all did likkity split.
I haven’t had to deal with Kioti during the warrantee as it simply put is the first tractor that didn’t take anything during the warrantee timeframe. I did however break a pin on an attachment after its warrantee was up and the local dealer gave me the part at a real savings compared to list.
Funny thing is I had installed a bolt till the pin got here, picked up the pin put it on the shelf in the garage and never installed it. So I guess I failed myself this time around?

 

[IndyJay]

Please explain...

Just my opinion, but mechanical parts are better suited for owner maintenance and repair. We are locked out of the software on these machines. I also think that electronic components evolve much quicker than changes to mechanical parts and availability may become an issue due to frequent changes in modules and firmware revisions in the production cycle.

My recent experiences with my 27 year old Massey 1250 leads me to this opinion. A steering arm that failed 15 years ago cost about $30 at the time and was easily available. Last year the arm on other side broke. It took me a long time to locate a used one for nearly $300. New parts have become very difficult to source for this tractor (engine pistons and rings for example) and mostly come from tractors that have been parted out. Pulling mechanical parts off of a nearly 30 year old tractor is one thing. I have little confidence in serviceability of computer control modules and chip based sensors that might be pulled off of a hulk for my Kioti 20 years from now.

I believe that in twenty years there will be quite a few tractors that would run and operate quite well mechanically but will be incapacitated due to a dead controller that is no longer available. I hope I am wrong but I just spent $2,800 getting my 27 year old fuel injection pump rebuilt because the parts had to be made for it. I just don't anticipate that ECU/MCU's will be easily found for 20+ year old tractors. That doesn't even consider whether there will be anyone who can still get into the programming.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Just my opinion, but mechanical parts are better suited for owner maintenance and repair. We are locked out of the software on these machines. I also think that electronic components evolve much quicker than changes to mechanical parts and availability may become an issue due to frequent changes in modules and firmware revisions in the production cycle.

My recent experiences with my 27 year old Massey 1250 leads me to this opinion. A steering arm that failed 15 years ago cost about $30 at the time and was easily available. Last year the arm on other side broke. It took me a long time to locate a used one for nearly $300. New parts have become very difficult to source for this tractor (engine pistons and rings for example) and mostly come from tractors that have been parted out. Pulling mechanical parts off of a nearly 30 year old tractor is one thing. I have little confidence in serviceability of computer control modules and chip based sensors that might be pulled off of a hulk for my Kioti 20 years from now.

I believe that in twenty years there will be quite a few tractors that would run and operate quite well mechanically but will be incapacitated due to a dead controller that is no longer available. I hope I am wrong but I just spent $2,800 getting my 27 year old fuel injection pump rebuilt because the parts had to be made for it. I just don't anticipate that ECU/MCU's will be easily found for 20+ year old tractors. That doesn't even consider whether there will be anyone who can still get into the programming.

I understand you and the concern is very logical and valid. On the other hand, I can't think of a better business opportunity for manufacturers and dealers to milk our wallets with these type of repairs.

 

[finn1]

There are people that do this for a living.

JD Powers is one that comes to mind. They have large staffs, professional statisticians and well thought out data gathering procedures.

A random question on an Internet forum is likely to get you garbage results, of no statistical significance or accuracy.

 

[ning]

Just my opinion, but mechanical parts are better suited for owner maintenance and repair. We are locked out of the software on these machines. I also think that electronic components evolve much quicker than changes to mechanical parts and availability may become an issue due to frequent changes in modules and firmware revisions in the production cycle.

My recent experiences with my 27 year old Massey 1250 leads me to this opinion. A steering arm that failed 15 years ago cost about $30 at the time and was easily available. Last year the arm on other side broke. It took me a long time to locate a used one for nearly $300. New parts have become very difficult to source for this tractor (engine pistons and rings for example) and mostly come from tractors that have been parted out. Pulling mechanical parts off of a nearly 30 year old tractor is one thing. I have little confidence in serviceability of computer control modules and chip based sensors that might be pulled off of a hulk for my Kioti 20 years from now.

I believe that in twenty years there will be quite a few tractors that would run and operate quite well mechanically but will be incapacitated due to a dead controller that is no longer available. I hope I am wrong but I just spent $2,800 getting my 27 year old fuel injection pump rebuilt because the parts had to be made for it. I just don't anticipate that ECU/MCU's will be easily found for 20+ year old tractors. That doesn't even consider whether there will be anyone who can still get into the programming.

There probably will be places which do this for a decent amount of time.

I'm sitting on the fence deciding if I want someone to redo the logic board in my kitchen's wall oven; it's 20 years old and that board has long since stopped being sold (and the manufacturer probably changes their models almost yearly unlike tractors which often have few changes over most of a decade until the next generation), but there are quite a few companies that will redo & fix them and it's not like every oven's got the same board either.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I was doing some comparative research tonight and I happened to come across Bad Boy's Tractor Warranty. I think it is a perfect example of what we have been discussing. It's clear after reading this warranty how little confidence Bad Boy has in the electronics on their tractors.

2021 LIMITED WARRANTY FOR BAD BOY TRACTORS​

A: GENERAL SCOPE OF COVERAGE.​

Bad Boy Tractors (BBT) will repair or replace, at its option, any genuine BBT part covered under this warranty which is found to be defective in design, material or workmanship during the applicable warranty term as set forth in the Coverage Chart reported in paragraph B, and with the exclusions listed in paragraph C. Each applicable warranty term begins on the date of sale. This warranty is provided to the Dealership of new Bad Boy tractors, implements, and genuine parts (“Equipment”) purchased from BBT. Warranty service must be performed by Dealership. The customer shall be responsible for any diagnostic work, service and/or maintenance not directly related to any defect covered under this warranty.

B: WHAT IS WARRANTED.​

Except for the exclusions listed in paragraph C, all parts of new Equipment are warranted as set forth in the Coverage Chart below.
�

Product	Coverage	Warranty Term
Coverage Chart
1022H/1025H Engine1 and Powertrain2	Spare Parts and Labor	84 months from date of sales or 2,000 working hours, whichever comes first
OTHER MODELS Engine1 and Powertrain2	Spare Parts and Labor	72 months from date of sales or 2,000 working hours, whichever comes first
Implements (Loader & Backhoe)	Spare Parts and Labor	24 months from date of shipment, 12 months from date of sales, or 500 working hours (based on tractor) whichever comes first
Other Tractor Parts	Spare Parts and Labor	24 months from date of sales or 1,000 working hours, whichever comes first
Replacement Parts	Parts Only	90 days or remainder of Equipment warranty (whichever is longer)

1Engine Includes: the crankcase, cylinder head, front gear case, valve cover pans, and all parts contained therein. The Engine does NOT include the fuel injection system pump, nozzles, high pressure lines, exhaust components, the diesel particulate filter system, or the following external engine components: electrical, cooling, and intake. All such items are considered Other Tractor Parts.
2Powertrain Includes: the clutch housing (except clutch disc), transmission case, differential and final drive housing and all parts contained therein, drive axles, external drive shafts associated with driveline operation. The Powertrain does NOT include the hydraulic parts, electronic parts, clutch cover & disk, outside parts for power train, etc.

C: WHAT IS NOT WARRANTED (EXCLUSIONS).​

Pursuant to the terms of this warranty, BAD BOY TRACTORS IS NOTRESPONSIBLE FOR ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:

1. Used Equipment.
2. Any Equipment that has been altered or modified in a manner not approved by BBT.
3. Defects caused by normal wear and tear or lack of sonable and proper maintenance.
4. Normal maintenance parts and service, including but not limited to: belts, brake and clutch linings, oil, filters (air, fuel, oil), coolants, ditioners, lubricants, pre-heater plugs, light bulbs, and clutch discs.
5. Engine fuel injection system pump, injector nozzles.
6. Damages caused by user negligence or failure to comply with the owner’s manual.
7. Damages caused by misuse or abuse, including but not limited to use of Equipment: (i) beyond stated or reasonable specifications or erance (ii) contrary to the terms of the owner’s manual, or (iii) contrary to the Equipment’s intended purposes.
8. Damages caused by the use of oversized attachments or implements.
9. Costs of repairs or replacements made by unauthorized personnel.
10. Costs of parts cleaning, adjustments, service calls, diagnostics, and clean up.
11. Tires, tubes, batteries, and radios.
12. Window, door glass and mirrors or other type of glasses such as lights except when damaged during shipment.
13. Freight charges on replacement parts.
14. Addition or replacement of chemical weight materials.
15. Damages or defects caused by accident, theft, fire, flood, vandalism, or an act of God.
16. Costs of rental of replacement equipment during the repair period.
17. Equipment which has been declared unusable and subsequently rebuilt.
18. Overtime labor charges with reference to the agreed repair timetables.
19. Transportation of Equipment and travel time (including mileage).
20. Any failure not caused by a defect in design workmanship or materials.
21. High pressure lines tampered with by end user.

D: TERMINATION OF WARRANTY.​

This warranty terminates and is voided immediately upon the occurrence of any of the following:

1. Use of starting fluid or ether to start or run the engine.
2. Use of any replacement part that is not a genuine BBT brand or BBT authorized part.
3. Any adjustment of the injection pump fuel delivery system.
4. Failure to timely and completely perform regular maintenance and service as prescribed by the operator’s manual during the warranty term.
5. Failure to perform Purchaser’s obligations as set forth in paragraph G of this warranty.
6. Misuse or abuse of Equipment, including but not limited to use of Equipment: (i) beyond stated or reasonable specifications or tolerances, (ii) contrary to the terms of the owner’s manual, or (iii) contrary to the Equipment’s intended purposes.

E: EXCLUSION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES AND LIMITATION OF LIABILITY.​

THIS WARRANTY IS IN LIEU OF ALL WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE OR OTHER REPRESENTATIONS, WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS, EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, ALL OF WHICH ARE HEREBY EXCLUDED. THE REMEDIES OF THIS WARRANTY SET FORTH HEREIN ARE EXCLUSIVE. BBT NEITHER ASSUMES, NOR AUTHORIZES ANY PERSON TO ASSUME FOR IT, ANY OTHER OBLIGATION OR LIABILITY IN CONNECTION WITH THE SALE OF COVERED EQUIPMENT. CORRECTION OF DEFECTS, IN THE MANNER AND FOR THE APPLICABLE PERIOD OF TIME PROVIDED ABOVE, SHALL CONSTITUTE ALL OBLIGATIONS OF KMC TO THE DISTRIBUTOR, AND KMC SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR NEGLIGENCE OR BREACH OF CONTRACT OF DISTRIBUTOR WITH RESPECT TO COVERED EQUIPMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE DISTRIBUTOR BE ENTITLED TO RECOVER FOR INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF CROPS OR SEED, LOST PROFITS OR INCOME, COST OF RENTAL OR REPLACEMENT EQUIPMENT, INCONVENIENCE.

F: NO DEALER WARRANTY.​

THIS WARRANTY IS THE ONLY WARRANTY AUTHORIZED BY BBT. DEALERS, DISTRIBUTORS, AND OTHER THIRD PARTIES HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO MAKE ANY WARRANTY, REPRESENTATION, CONDITION OR PROMISE ON BEHALF OF BBT, OR TO MODIFY THE TERMS OR LIMITATIONS OF THIS WARRANTY IN ANY WAY.

G: OWNER’S OBLIGATIONS.​

To secure warranty service, the Owner must: (1) promptly report the defect to the dealership and request warranty service within the applicable warranty term; (2) present evidence of the warranty start date with valid proof of purchase; The Owner must maintain the Equipment in accordance with the instructions provided in the owner’s manual and keep records for such maintenance. If a covered defect occurs, it is the owners responsibility to cease operating the Equipment until repairs are made. Further damage which occurs from continued operation may not be covered by this warranty.

H: TRANSFERABILITY.​

Upon a transfer of Equipment by the original purchaser, any remaining coverage of this warranty may be transferred to the subsequent purchaser.