Waste Oil

TomG · Apr 26, 2000

Just a note. Today, we get 500 gallons of waste oil removed from our other place. The oil was an accumulation from a previous owner. The oil is in a well-rusted furnace oil tank and 55 gallon drums. They've been there since the days of leaded gas, and are just waiting to rust through or tip over. It would be an ungodly and an expensive mess.

I was talking to my insurance broker about another matter and incidentally mentioned the oil. She said: 'You know that if you've got that sort of thing on your property, there's no insurance coverage if something goes wrong.' I thought that's a real good thing to know and is strong encouragement for anybody with a waste oil accumulation to do something about it.

Getting rid of it is something of an ordeal. Here, there are testing and permits required, and the waste oil companies usually don't do residential work. Maybe I was lucky that a company decided to take it.

Roy · Apr 26, 2000

My guess is that the insurance companies would not see such a claim as meeting the 'sudden and unexpected' condition for losses. That is, if you have a rusted steel tank, filled with oil, how could you not foresee eventual deterioration and/or risk of spillage.

TomG · Apr 28, 2000

Yes, in this case I agree with the insurance company. To leave something like that around is irresponsible, and I wouldn't want to pay the insurance rates that it would take to underwrite that level of irresponsibility. Anyway, the oil is gone at a cost of $550Can for the testing and removal. I think it was worth it.

Roy · Apr 28, 2000

I agree, it was worth it. No question that you did the correct thing. I have heard stories about people finding old underground tanks on their property, and the cleanup and removal cost is very high! And of course, these things spend years in court (property owner vs. insurance company vs. previous property owner)! Thanks for brining it to people's attention. Not only should we attack the problems before they become nightmares, we should also be prudent when purchasing older property to see if there are signs of unwanted hazards.

Anonymous Poster · Apr 30, 2000

>>and the cleanup and removal cost is very high...

I agree, but you want to hear something ridiculous...we all know how hard it is to get rid of waste oil, how it is a hazordous waste etc etc, I had a few gallons of used oil I brought to our dump this morning to get rid of (they sometimes have a big tank to they collect it in), so I asked the attendant where I should put these 2 gallons of waste oil, you know what he says? "just throw them in the back of the dumptruck, its all going to the landfill anyway"...rake the average joe across the coals when something gets spilled on his property and then just dump hundreds (thousands? millions?) of gallons in the landfills across the country....I know this is not necessarily what happens at all landfills, but I am sure it is not just mine.

Richardb · May 3, 2000

Thanks for pointing this out to us. We has the same ordeal for a 55 drum of waste hydraulic fluid, it took quite a while to sort that one out. In our area the local automotive repair shops have waste-oil burning heaters and really appreciate donations in the winter. That's what I do with mine, and I then have the peace of mind knowing it dosen't somehow get spilled or sent to the dump. Don't know if old oil would burn well, but I expect it should, I've seen some pretty filthy oil in the drum when I make my donations...

W5FL · May 4, 2000

That isn't my idea of recycling, but I guess if it prevents buying new fuel for the heater it serves the same purpose.

I used to know a guy who poured all his waste oil on his driveway. Wonder how he every managed to clean up that mess?

TomG · May 4, 2000

I used to drive on section roads that were oiled, probably old transformer oil with PVC's. They actually were good roads compared to the typical gravel ones. The oil seemed to soak into the dirt fast and pack into a fairly hard surface. I wonder if the areas are still contaminated. I hate to think about it.

Wish I knew somebody with a waste oil furnace. I agree that it's not re-cycling, but at least it's fairly safe disposal.

Richardb · May 4, 2000

I agree that it is not recycling, but it is my (limited) understanding that this is what eventually happens to all waste oil. Ususally it go to a 'recycling' company who filters it and mix in kero to get proper viscosity for industrial waste oil burners to provide heat. I'm sure it burns cleaner after processing though. I was told this by a guy on our county's solid waste board. What other uses for waste oil might there be?

The same fellow told me what happens to our 'recycled' mixed paper. It gets shredded and used as animal bedding for local dairy farms, then composts with the manure and eventially is spread on the corn fields. I wonder about the toxic inks in the glossy paper, though I've read that nontoxic inks are being used more, especially for newsprint. Of course they also fertilize fields here with liquid waste from municipal sewage treatment plants, so the boneheads that pour oil down the drain (illegal) or glycol (legal!), get to drink their oil and glycol in next seasons milk! Some recycling!

Alan W. · May 4, 2000

I take my used oil to Auto Zone, they have a tank to put it in that the recyclers pick up. Don't know what happens to it afterwards. Most inks that are used today are non toxic, except for the gold and silver metallic ones. We had to keep any print with these seperated from the others when it was baled for resale. I worked 13 years for a magazine printer. Some of the magazine covers that appear to have clear coat applied to them is also toxic, this is an ultrviolet light cured coating that is applied as the paper exits the press.

TomG · May 5, 2000

Some things must have changed. In the early '70's sewerage sludge was commercially packaged but not intended for food crops. It tended to have heavy metal contamination from all sorts of industrial stuff used to be put down drains. Printing and photography processing were problems I think.

It seems like change for the better if liquid waste can now be used on food crops. I imagine there must be testing requirements.

Wingnut · May 5, 2000

Can't speak for Michigan since I haven't accumulated enough to dispose of ... but in Alberta, the recyclers delivered their oil to a refinery where the oil was recycled into ... oil. They produced a brochure showing that the oil doesn't "wear out" ... it just gets dirty and loses the additives. If the oil is not contaminated with glycol or some other chemical that'll change the properties ... it can be cleaned and reused.
They did run it through a process in the refinery to yank out the contaminents and dirt ... and they did market it as "re-manufactured. I never used it (always bought in bulk at Costco) ... but knew some folks who did and they never had a problem with it. One of the labs did some tests on it (at the chemical company that I worked at) and they found no problems.
So ... there is some use other than burning it ... after all, it is non renewable and the supply is limited.

too bad that common sense ain't

Wingnut · May 5, 2000

back in Alberta, it was quite common to form "hardpack" on the gravel roads by applying waste oil to them. The country would do that for 1/4 mile or so on each side of a drive if the house was within several hundred feet of the road ... to keep the dust down. It was not smart to drive on it before it soaked (splatters real good) but it formed an almost asphalt surface.

re the waste paper ... most of the newsprint in that part of the country went to insulation ... farmers couldn't afford it for bedding.

I'm surprised by the lack of recycling here in Michigan. In Alberta, I'd take all paper, cardboard, plastic, bottles & glass, and cans to the recycle center on the way to work ... usually once a week ... and take 2 full garbage cans to the dump with non-recycleable ... about twice a year! The recycle center even had a "trade spot" where you could take architectural stuff (door, windows, wood) that you didn't have a use for ... or pick up whatever was there. And if you were a city dweller, you could even drop off your grass and shrub clippinga nd they'd compost or chip them for city park use. I didn't live in the city but they never hassled me about contributing ...

too bad that common sense ain't

Bird · May 5, 2000

Way back in 1956-58, when my dad owned a service station, we used to stock re-refined motor oil. It was a non-detergent oil, but a lot of folks used it in old cars, especially if they had an oil burner or leaky one which wasn't too unusual back then. We frequently had folks ask if we had any two-bit motor oil, and a lot of times they acted like they were almost ashamed to ask for that cheap stuff. The fact of the matter was that we made $.11 on a $.40 can of Mobil oil and $.125 cents (doubled our money) on the two-bit oil. With today's engines, I don't know anyone who still uses the recycled oil, but I noticed it in a service station recently; didn't ask how much of it they sell.

Bird

TomG · May 6, 2000

There have been some comments from people who claim they virtually never change oil. Apparently they periodically put in an addititive and send an oil sample for testing. From the comments, they do change filters as scheduled, and the oil if test results are bad.

Perhaps that's all the recyclers do--filter and replentish the additives. Maybe it works, but I'm not sure I could get used to the idea.

richh · May 6, 2000

FYI you all should find people in your areas that do have waste oil heaters. I have been using W/O for over 8 yr. now to heat with. This is a EPA aproved way to dispose of it. A good W/O furance burns just as clean as one using #2 oil as long as it is prop. adj. I had to buy some this winter for the first time payed .40 a gal. for it del. sure beats 1.30!!!!!! any qust??
rich

gordon · May 7, 2000

Rich I have a couple of questions about your waste oil heater. Do you have to thin the oil at all? What type of filter system does it use? Do you have to clean the nozzle often and make adjustments often? How much do these cost? I am assuming that its a ducted hotair furnace. Thanks for any info Gordon

TomG · May 7, 2000

Somebody on @agriculture said their waste oil furnace cost $7,000 U.S. They didn't say if it was a forced air type.

richh · May 7, 2000

Its a speical burner not just a #2 gun. First you run it through a #100 scren that has a drain in the bottom to dump any water. On mine I run it in to a sec. tank about a 30 gal. This dose 2 things 1,any water will drop to the bottom where there is another drain and any other dirt that got through the 1st filter also drops to the bottom, and 2, since the oil came from outside it has a chance to warm up. My garge says at about 45 even when its -10 out, nice. The burner has a block with passages in it along with heater elemnts, this perheats the oil and the air to about 130, you need compreser to run these burners. Now all of this gos through a speical nossel with 2 holes, the center one the oil comes out of at about 2 to 3 psi. then theres is a ring around this where the air comes out spinning everything to burn the oil in suspention. burnes clean as can be no smoke at all!! Mine is in the garage heats water, runs in to the house via 2 1" water lines and heats the dhw and then I go to F/A and run through a air to water coil [a big radator] and heat the house. boy that was a long one, as you can see my spelling is just great but i think you get it.
RICH

gordon · May 8, 2000

Thanks for the info rich tell me what does dhw and f/a stand for. Is a boiler like yours pretty expensive versus a conventional hot water oil fired boiler. Thanks Gordon