Water & Gas Line Size

[kenmac]

. Also check your gas meter to make sure it can deliver the extra load. People often have to change their meter when they buy backup generators because they require so much flow, for example. I'd at least think about hiring someone to do the design on the system, even if you still want to do it yourself. The gas company will provide some help around here sizing the meter, not sure where you live.

Belived or not...The regulator has more to do with gas flow than the meter.Gas passes through the orifice in the regulator. Larger orifice = more gas flow.Most gas meters will flow more than twice the meter rating . Only purpose the gas meter serves is , metering the correct amount of gas flow so, the gas co. gets paid correctly

 

[LD1]

Ditto on needing to know the load for the gas. Without knowing, everyone is just guessing.

As to the water, x2 on the black Polyethylene (PE) water pipe. Thats what is used for wells AND even rural "city" water. It comes in rolls and I think is going to be cheaper than other options. But watch which one you get. SDR-7 is what our water company reccomends because with it, you can use compression union fittings. Not sure about the other types.

 

[BeezFun]

Belived or not...The regulator has more to do with gas flow than the meter.Gas passes through the orifice in the regulator. Larger orifice = more gas flow.Most gas meters will flow more than twice the meter rating . Only purpose the gas meter serves is , metering the correct amount of gas flow so, the gas co. gets paid correctly

It's a combination of the two. The regulator controls the pressure, the meter limits overall rate. Most home generators require ~14"WC but home appliances can't be exposed to more than about 5. So one regulator needs to be installed to protect the home appliances and one to supply the generator. The meter might have to be changed too depending on size of generator and what other appliances are run off gas. I've never seen anyone talk about installing a second regulator to protect the house appliances, maybe it's so obvious no one even mentions it. I looked into this for our house and found the gas company to be a really good source of info.

 

[kenmac]

It's a combination of the two. The regulator controls the pressure, the meter limits overall rate. Most home generators require ~14"WC but home appliances can't be exposed to more than about 5. So one regulator needs to be installed to protect the home appliances and one to supply the generator. .

The meter has nothing to do with limiting the rate. It's only a means for the gas utility to get paid. Small applianges operate at around 3.5-4.0 wc. Generators ? It depends on the Manfacturer of the genset.Most I've connected lines to operate on about 8'' wc -10''wc.The regulator controls pressure while the orifice limits the anount of gas going through the reg.. I've been in the reg. gas , hvac bus. for 30 yrs. Install 1 1/4 inch orifice in a reg. then , a reg with a 1/4'' orifice & see which 1 flows the most gas. I have my orifice flow chart at the office so, I can't give you the flow rates at this time for the orifices I've listed. A gas meter is only a cash register for the gas co nothing more.Onec you go above the gas meter rating plate( CF) ,The meter becomes inaccurate in gas measurement. thus , we need a larger gas meter to accurately measure gas flow . When we install commerical equipment.We usually deal with rotary meters. where , most homes will use a diaphragm meters

 

[BeezFun]

The meter has nothing to do with limiting the rate. ... Onec you go above the gas meter rating plate( CF) ,The meter becomes inaccurate in gas measurement. thus , we need a larger gas meter to accurately measure gas flow . When we install commerical equipment.We usually deal with rotary meters. where , most homes will use a diaphragm meters

If what you're saying is correct, it means I could draw as much gas off my meter as I wanted simply by installing a larger orifice in the regulator, and the only thing that would happen is the gas company wouldn't be able to measure and charge me for it. Doesn't sound like something my beloved gas company would allow. A diaphram meter is a positive displacement device, so it has to have some maximum flow rate that can pass through it.

 

[Gary Fowler]

For the 200 feet of Water line pipe that you are running, I would use schedule 40 PVC rated at 450#. It gives highest protection from damage from rocks in the soil. PEX and black Poly are soft and unless you have solid clay or sand will be susceptible to punctures. PVC requires no special tools to crimp the ends to prevent leaks and is fairly cheap. I bought some 1" schedule 40 last summer on sale at Lowes for $1.68 per 10 foot joint. Even when not on sale it is only about 22 cents per foot, couplings are about 30 cents each and you can get socket weld x pipe thread adapter to fit a hose bib for about the same price. I bought the blue glue (recommended by my sprinkler installer) which has a cleaner/primer in it so no need to buy separate purple primer AND it can be applied to wet pipe and still work well. It is very good for splicing into a previously energized line where water continues to drip. The clear glue wont work if the pipe isnt perfectly dry and purple primer applied. A small can of glue(about 4 oz) will be more than sufficient. Just swab the pipe and the coupling with it and shove them together. The blue glue bonds almost instantly also and requires not more than 5 minutes cure prior to turning on the water. If you can find the bell and spigot style PVC then you can eliminate the couplings.
I have never used it for gas line, but it might be OK for that also. It would have WOG (water,oil, gas)on it if it is good for gas. I would think it would be ok. The gas lines running all over the neighborhood use the orange roll type Poly but it is very thick. I dont use gas at my place and only experience I have had with it is in attics where it is black carbon steel pipe. You arent supposed to use galvanized pipe for gas although I remember the buried line at my Dads was galvanized for running butane to the house for heat and cooking and it worked for about 40 or 50 years without leaking or other problems. Supposedly the galvanized will flake off and stop up your orifices.

 

[kenmac]

Close, We have tested a 250 gas meter to accurately flow/measure about 700 cfh.Above this cfh the accuracy drops off. This size meter will flow all the gas a small residental regulator can provide. for most residental regulators, the largest orifice you can install is 1/2'' depending on inlet reg.. psi .When moving up to an industral /commerical reg with a 1 1/4 '' orifice, you would want to go with either a larger diaphrgam meter with larger valves or a rotary. the gas co here will provide the cust with pressures from 6'' wc 2 psi 5 psi etc, depending on the meter maop . ( max allowed operating pressure) as listed on the meter As in my other post , most meters will flow more than 2x their rating

 

[BeezFun]

Close, We have tested a 250 gas meter to accurately flow/measure aboutn 700 cfh.Above this cfh the accuracy drops off. This size meter will flow all the gas a small residental regulator can provide. for most residental regulators, the largest orifice you can install is 1/2'' depending on inlet reg.. psi .When moving up to an industral /commerical reg with a 1 1/4 '' orifice, you would want to go with either a larger diaphrgam meter with larger valves or a rotary. the gas co here will provide the cust with pressures from 6'' wc 2 psi 5 psi etc, depending on the meter maop . ( max allowed operating pressure) as listed on the meter

Interesting, so is it some anomoly of the way gas is delivered around here (Chicago area) that often requires upsizing the gas meter? I have three friends who have had generators installed in the last few years, every one had to pay the gas company to install a larger meter. The generators are all about 15Kw, I think one was a little larger, and the homes were heated with natural gas. So the typical scenario is an ice storm takes out power, now you need enough gas to run the generator at full blast because we all have wells on top of normal electric demand, and we all have natural gas heat that's running full blast in the middle of winter.

 

[MMH]

BeezFun is right on the money. After more research I ended up going w/ 1" polyethylene. I"ll have to double check on the pressure rating but believe that I got 100 PSI.

For the Gas I also went w/ 1". It is a yellow pipe that looks like polyethylene as well. It is certified gas line & what is used here.

 

[etcallhome]

I wouldn't use PVC or pex for that kind of water run, I'd use polyethylene plastic pipe like they use for wells. I ran 200' of it out to my barn, used 1". It's also a lot cheaper than either PVC or pex. They make it in 100psi rating, but I'd buy the 200psi, the wall is thicker and gives you better protection against rocks and damage. It comes in long rolls so you can run it without having any joints except at the end. If I had it to do over I'd throw a second pipe in the trench, it's so cheap compared to the labor that if you ever have a leak, just switch to the other pipe.

For the gas they make a special flexible pipe that you can use, it's yellow around here, not sure if that's standard or not. All the other advice is correct, figure out what appliances you're going to be running before sizing the pipe. Also check your gas meter to make sure it can deliver the extra load. People often have to change their meter when they buy backup generators because they require so much flow, for example. I'd at least think about hiring someone to do the design on the system, even if you still want to do it yourself. The gas company will provide some help around here sizing the meter, not sure where you live.

I agree,, Over the next yr we're getting city water. They suggest we put nothing less than 200 psi. ,a good friend works for the water dept ,he advised buying compression fittings .... They find less leaks other the long run (yrs installed) with compression fittings compared to the crimp or other connections. LikeBreezFun stated using the 200 psi piping the thicker wall on the tubing gives better and longer protection.