Water Hydrant install

[okclumberjack]

hello everybody was wanting some advice. have a well with good size pump & pressure tank, have been running hoses off existing hydrant by the well head @ present plan on adding 3 more hydrants(baker) the existing is on south end of property plan on putting one on N,E,W sides making it one big CONTINOUS loop about 900 ft. 1.5 sch 40 there is about a 7 ft drop from south side to N side so nothing should be pumped up hill(gravity on my side) any way here are my # questions 1. where i tee up off the main i probally will go straight up(maybe will tee off & then up not sure yet, understand the rational but what does it matter if you have a break you have a break???) anyway if i tee straight up should i use some kind of metal tee instead of sch 40 tee heard some where there is alot of stress on the tee @ this junction. 2. graveling the hole how much gravel, thinking about taking a 5 gal bucket & cutting the bottom out & notching for the main set over the hydrant then fillin up with gravel is this over kill(my brain tells me if it's worth doing, it's worth over doing (CURSE)??? #. i visuilize after this all done when I turn the water on there being alot of air in the line will spit & sputter till it all get out will this cause undue stress on the lines??? thanks

 

[GolfAddict]

I can tell you my experience when I had a couple of hydrants added. The guy doing the work used brass connectors. He also used two hose clamps on each end, clamping opposite directions from each other. He also used the 5 gallon pail method. He filled the pail with what he called "river rock" (small, smooth hard stones) as he said that drains better. He didn't cut the bottom out, but had used a hole saw to drill a bunch of holes in the bottom - half inch or so holes. Then he cut fabric cloth to cover the top of the bucket and rock with a slice in the fabric for the hydrant to stick up from. He said otherwise dirt settled down in the drain rock over the years and it didn't drain as well.

Don't know if that's the right way or not - just that's what he did and he's done a lot of them...

 

[MG1867]

My only suggestion would be to backfill with sand. If you ever have to dig up for any reason you will regret digging in gravel.

 

[hosspuller]

Along with the good tips already posted. A couple of suggestions:

Add a small length of tube (3-4 inches) to the drain hole at the valve. It makes sure the hole doesn't get plugged with dirt

Bury a wire along with the plastic pipe. A locator can trace it many years later.

At each tee, place a paving stone flush to the ground. It's a lasting visual reference for the line locations.

Set a post next to the hydrant to brace it to. Keeps the movement of the handle from disturbing your underground connections.

Use hose quick connects at the hydrant. Leaving a hose on is a sure way to freeze a hydrant. The QC makes it easy to take hose off and drain it.

 

[RFB]

The bucket, gravel and geotextile fabric is the method that I use, and we bury 5 feet deep for freeze protection. Any re-excavation is done with a BH.

I also use a ball valve shutoff in the summer to avoid overuse wear on the hydrant parts. The ball valve shutoff on the hose connection is turned off/on but the hydrant is left on for the warm season.

In winter, back to normal use and the hose comes off after each use.

 

[turnkey4099]

From way back when (40 years?) when I was doing my property research said to come off sideways with rigid pipe a few feet and then up. Dunno if that is recommended now. I used galvanised.

Harry K

 

[Kays Supply]

I have had very good luck putting a few feet of soft copper from the hydrant out. It will take much more abuse than plastic. I also use the external valve trick. My wife also likes that because it is much easier to use , than the lift handle. If these are on your house line a shut off valve underground is also a good insurance. A broken hydrant without a shut off can spoil your day in the house.

 

[daybreak1998]

hello everybody was wanting some advice. have a well with good size pump & pressure tank, have been running hoses off existing hydrant by the well head @ present plan on adding 3 more hydrants(baker) the existing is on south end of property plan on putting one on N,E,W sides making it one big CONTINOUS loop about 900 ft. 1.5 sch 40 there is about a 7 ft drop from south side to N side so nothing should be pumped up hill(gravity on my side) any way here are my # questions 1. where i tee up off the main i probally will go straight up(maybe will tee off & then up not sure yet, understand the rational but what does it matter if you have a break you have a break???) anyway if i tee straight up should i use some kind of metal tee instead of sch 40 tee heard some where there is alot of stress on the tee @ this junction. 2. graveling the hole how much gravel, thinking about taking a 5 gal bucket & cutting the bottom out & notching for the main set over the hydrant then fillin up with gravel is this over kill(my brain tells me if it's worth doing, it's worth over doing (CURSE)??? #. i visuilize after this all done when I turn the water on there being alot of air in the line will spit & sputter till it all get out will this cause undue stress on the lines??? thanks

Howdy,
Where do you live? Gets the idea of what type of hydrant.

Cold freezing area = Woodford Iowa Frost Free Hydrants are my recommended units. Might be more expensive than others, but with this type if installation, you don't want to re-do your work anytime soon. High Pressure 210psi black plastic (HDPE pipe tubing) Can be gotton in many sizes and lengths. Standard here is 1 inch, and what length you are working. For your job, obviously a 1000 ft roll would be best. The least amount of connection below ground is the best way to go. I see you mentioned sch 40 1.5". I would not go that route for in the ground. Anytime you have a connection, that could leak. That means in a 900' run, you could have 45 places for leaks. Always solid brass connectors, with the black plastic pipe flash heated with map gas torch and connected on brass fitting. Dual stainless worm screw clamps. Where the hydrants are = good solid base where the spit valve is located. Half a cinder block works, large type gravel around is for a good drain out area. I use weed block folded twice at top of gravel area to keep dirt from flowing down into my drain out area. This is also the best time to set a post next to hydrant. I rarely have a free standing hydrant, always with a post of some type, even a simple 4x4 post. Trench the entire area the correct depth for your frost line. Take pictures and draw out a proper map with distances to referenced locations. Save those maps with you house property paperwork.

Do not cheap out. Once a job like this is done, you do not want to fix some cheap item 1-2 years later.

Remember, everytime the hydrant is shut off, its dumps approx 2 cups of water. In warmer months, a 1/4 turn ball valve is great to have for a heavy use location.

 

[Willl]

IMO, frost free for outside faucets is the only way to go.

Installed 2 at my place, the bottom of both are surrounded by 6" by pea gravel with the base of the faucet sitting on a small flat block.

The one out next to the kennel I poured a above ground concrete pad to hold it. Simple 2X4 frame w/ some corner fill-ins. Used a small plastic bucket for the hole.

Used a similar concrete frame for the one next to the house, but it's 3" below grade covered by 1/2 round rock (large pea gravel).

 

[SandburRanch]

Would someone explain to me why the hose needs to be removed from a buried hydrant after every use in cold weather?

There only 2 instances I can see this to be necessary. 1) If there is a fixture on the far end that doesn't allow atmospheric air to enter the hose. 2) if the hose remains in the tank that was just filled.

If it isn't removed from the tank or at least loosened at the hydrant for a vacuum break it will drain the tank down to the level the hose end is in the tank.

 

[Willl]

Would someone explain to me why the hose needs to be removed from a buried hydrant after every use in cold weather?

Don't know about others, but my 'hose-end-gizmo' is usually shut tight which would stop any drain back which would create a up pipe full of water.

 

[SandburRanch]

Don't know about others, but my 'hose-end-gizmo' is usually shut tight which would stop any drain back which would create a up pipe full of water.

Yes it would if the hose end can't get air through an open end, sprinkler or other etc.

But in that case the hose and gizmo also needs drained. Just the hose connection at the hydrant being loose to atmospheric air is sufficient to drain the hydrant but not the hose.

 

[BHD]

It may not drain back with that much resistance, or vacuum to pull 50 foot of water out of the hose and down the pipe, and it may saturate the ground with water and not be able to pull all the water in to drain out the hydrant,

just loosen the hose and break the vacuum or use a vacuum breaker on it,

 

[Willl]

I'm so guilty of this. Either I didn't realize it was going to freeze that night or just plain forgot to disconnect the hose.

Either way, I've been caught many times going out in brrrrrr temps to find my frost-free frozen solid.

Nothings stupid proof.

 

[Hollow]

I just put in a new hydrant. I went to Lowe's and bought a plastic meter box, (only $14) T'd off and put a shut off valve in the box. Ran it over and then up with a freeze proof hydrant. I'm like you, if its worth doing it's worth doing with a little overkill. If something ever happens to that hydrant and I don't have time to fix it right then I can just shut it off and come back to fix it later without effecting the rest of my water supply.

 

[Hollow]

 

[turnkey4099]

I just put in a new hydrant. I went to Lowe's and bought a plastic meter box, (only $14) T'd off and put a shut off valve in the box. Ran it over and then up with a freeze proof hydrant. I'm like you, if its worth doing it's worth doing with a little overkill. If something ever happens to that hydrant and I don't have time to fix it right then I can just shut it off and come back to fix it later without effecting the rest of my water supply.

Amen! I have kicked myself many times for not doing that. I put in 7 frost frees when I had the new well put in. only 2 are still working. The well pumped some very fine silt for years and ones I didn't use regularly plugged up. To replace them would require shuttign off the pump and draingn the entire system.

They are 'fixable' from the top BUT: Jusst try taking one apart that way as it comes fromt eh factory. I don't know what torque they put on them but you ain't gonna breake that top piece loose on one still in the ground. It took me a leg vice, a 24" pipe wrench and a hammer befoe I got one I dug up loose.

Might be a good practice to loosen and reinstall it on any new FF you install before you bury it.

Harry K

 

[SandburRanch]

It may not drain back with that much resistance, or vacuum to pull 50 foot of water out of the hose and down the pipe, and it may saturate the ground with water and not be able to pull all the water in to drain out the hydrant,

just loosen the hose and break the vacuum or use a vacuum breaker on
it,

If the hose end is above the under ground drain hole and open to atmosphere it will drain the hose, I guarantee it. In fact if the hose remains in a tank or water container of any kind and the container water level is elevated above the drain back, in time it will drain the whole container. Been there, done that by mistake and won't forget that lesson.