jpm
Platinum Member
scotty if you are getting water by a crack open it up a little and
fill it with hydrulic cement , works great
fill it with hydrulic cement , works great
Water in Basement.....Help
- Thread starter scott_vt
- Start date
- Views: 19006
OP
scott_vt
Super Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2004
- Messages
- 7,340
- Location
- east wells,vt
- Tractor
- 1986 MF 1040, 1942 Farmall A, 1949 Farmall Super A
Hi jpm,
I did the hydraulic concrete thing on the right wall a few years back and it initially helped, but after time I was getting the same result. I appreciate your reply, but I think my options at this time are limited.
Thanks again,
scotty
I did the hydraulic concrete thing on the right wall a few years back and it initially helped, but after time I was getting the same result. I appreciate your reply, but I think my options at this time are limited.
Thanks again,
scotty
dmccarty
Super Star Member
Scott,
Can you drain the swale by filling it in or draining the water from it downhill past the house? You could use the 4 inch pipe to move the water. The pipe would not have to be deep to just move the water around the house.
Later,
Dan
Can you drain the swale by filling it in or draining the water from it downhill past the house? You could use the 4 inch pipe to move the water. The pipe would not have to be deep to just move the water around the house.
Later,
Dan
OP
scott_vt
Super Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2004
- Messages
- 7,340
- Location
- east wells,vt
- Tractor
- 1986 MF 1040, 1942 Farmall A, 1949 Farmall Super A
Hi Dan,
That is an excellent suggestion and I will try to extend the swale around the backside of the property to let it naturally drain better. A curtain drain is also an option come spring time /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Thanks
scotty
That is an excellent suggestion and I will try to extend the swale around the backside of the property to let it naturally drain better. A curtain drain is also an option come spring time /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Thanks
scotty
jim_wilson
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2004
- Messages
- 1,791
- Location
- Northeast MA
- Tractor
- Kubota B3200 w/ BH77 & 12", 18" & 24" buckets, Kubota B50 SSQA w/ 54" & 60" buckets, LandPride FDR1660, Artillian Fork frame, Extreme 3pt rake, Concrete Mixer, MyTractorTools grapple adapter
If you have someplace that you can drain off to you might be able to bury a drain pipe underground in the swale area - setup the same way you would for a foundation footer drain (surrounded by crushed rock and geotextile) and then extend the drainpipe underground someplace away from the house. The water would percolate thru the ground in the swale down into the drain pipe and then get directed away from your house. Might be easier than some of the alternatives.
I would also take a hard look at where the water is really coming from - maybe try breaking up a small part of the basement floor and see if you find water building up under the floor. This would give you a better idea of whether the water is truly coming up from below or coming thru the wall. Sometimes this can be deceptive. I had water ending up on my floor that looked like it was coming up from the gap between the floor and the wall - once I dug down the foundation wall to the footer I discovered that there were cracks in the foundation wall and some areas where the concrete did not settle well. I think what was really happening was the water was coming thru the wall and then going down until it hit the footer - when it got there it would then accumulate to the point where it came thru the gap. Tar isn't really a good waterproofer - it dries out over time. I had tarred up a small entryway foundation I put in just 3 years ago - and it started leaking within a year or so. When I dug down the back of my foundation I also dug down that entryway foundation - and the tar was all dried up to the point where it was brittle enough that I could clean it off the concrete by hitting it with a grinder. Not real good if you trying to seal up cracks that develop over time.
I would also take a hard look at where the water is really coming from - maybe try breaking up a small part of the basement floor and see if you find water building up under the floor. This would give you a better idea of whether the water is truly coming up from below or coming thru the wall. Sometimes this can be deceptive. I had water ending up on my floor that looked like it was coming up from the gap between the floor and the wall - once I dug down the foundation wall to the footer I discovered that there were cracks in the foundation wall and some areas where the concrete did not settle well. I think what was really happening was the water was coming thru the wall and then going down until it hit the footer - when it got there it would then accumulate to the point where it came thru the gap. Tar isn't really a good waterproofer - it dries out over time. I had tarred up a small entryway foundation I put in just 3 years ago - and it started leaking within a year or so. When I dug down the back of my foundation I also dug down that entryway foundation - and the tar was all dried up to the point where it was brittle enough that I could clean it off the concrete by hitting it with a grinder. Not real good if you trying to seal up cracks that develop over time.
OP
scott_vt
Super Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2004
- Messages
- 7,340
- Location
- east wells,vt
- Tractor
- 1986 MF 1040, 1942 Farmall A, 1949 Farmall Super A
Hi Jim,
Im 99% sure its coming from through thatsamll gap between the wall and floor /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif As I said yesterday, I ordered that book from the link you proveded /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Thanks!
The swale curtain drain sounds like a good idea also. I did have one more thought, and that would be to chisel small trough around the entire perimeter about 2" deep to funnel the water over to the sump pump. Does that sound viable to you?
Thanks
scotty
Im 99% sure its coming from through thatsamll gap between the wall and floor /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif As I said yesterday, I ordered that book from the link you proveded /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Thanks!
The swale curtain drain sounds like a good idea also. I did have one more thought, and that would be to chisel small trough around the entire perimeter about 2" deep to funnel the water over to the sump pump. Does that sound viable to you?
Thanks
scotty
jim_wilson
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2004
- Messages
- 1,791
- Location
- Northeast MA
- Tractor
- Kubota B3200 w/ BH77 & 12", 18" & 24" buckets, Kubota B50 SSQA w/ 54" & 60" buckets, LandPride FDR1660, Artillian Fork frame, Extreme 3pt rake, Concrete Mixer, MyTractorTools grapple adapter
<font color="blue"> Im 99% sure its coming from through thatsamll gap between the wall and floor As I said yesterday, I ordered that book from the link you proveded Thanks!
</font>
What I meant was where do you think the water is originating from before it comes thru that gap? It is either coming thru the wall itself and somehow making itself obvious by coming thru that gap you describe or it is building up under the basement floor and then pushing out thru the gap. By breaking a hole thru your basement floor and digging a shallow hole you would get a better idea of what was the source of the water.
For instance if you had a hole in the floor and saw water building up in the hole - and then you start getting water push out of the gap you can be pretty sure the water is coming down and getting under the footer and building up from below. If however you get water thru the gap and the hole stays dry or mostly dry you would have a better idea that the water is actually coming thru the wall. Remember that where the water actually leaks out is not always the best indicator of where it originated from.
The trough idea might work but if the amount of water that is leaking in increased the trough might just act as a way to spread the water into another part of the basement. From everything I have ever read about water problems in basements you really want to cure the problem outside the basement wall - not inside. Think of a ship with a hole in the side - a steel plate welded on the outside of the hull will do a lot better at holding the water back than a steel plate on the inside will - on the outside the water pressure helps to keep the plate on the hull, on the inside the water pressure is always working against that plate trying to push it off. The same principle applies to water trying to come into a basement, you either need to channel the water away from the basement so it does not get there in the first place or you need to somehow waterproof the wall so the water does not make it's way thru. The products that go on the inside of the wall - like Drylock, do help but you are just trying to stop the water before it finally leaks out of the concrete. Same with a French drain around the inside perimeter - you are just trying to do something with the water that is already inside your basement. It boils down to money and time and the intended use of the basement in the end. The interior solutions are much cheaper but not as likely to solve the problem completely. The exterior solutions stand a better chance of completely solving the problem but will cost more money and time.
</font>
What I meant was where do you think the water is originating from before it comes thru that gap? It is either coming thru the wall itself and somehow making itself obvious by coming thru that gap you describe or it is building up under the basement floor and then pushing out thru the gap. By breaking a hole thru your basement floor and digging a shallow hole you would get a better idea of what was the source of the water.
For instance if you had a hole in the floor and saw water building up in the hole - and then you start getting water push out of the gap you can be pretty sure the water is coming down and getting under the footer and building up from below. If however you get water thru the gap and the hole stays dry or mostly dry you would have a better idea that the water is actually coming thru the wall. Remember that where the water actually leaks out is not always the best indicator of where it originated from.
The trough idea might work but if the amount of water that is leaking in increased the trough might just act as a way to spread the water into another part of the basement. From everything I have ever read about water problems in basements you really want to cure the problem outside the basement wall - not inside. Think of a ship with a hole in the side - a steel plate welded on the outside of the hull will do a lot better at holding the water back than a steel plate on the inside will - on the outside the water pressure helps to keep the plate on the hull, on the inside the water pressure is always working against that plate trying to push it off. The same principle applies to water trying to come into a basement, you either need to channel the water away from the basement so it does not get there in the first place or you need to somehow waterproof the wall so the water does not make it's way thru. The products that go on the inside of the wall - like Drylock, do help but you are just trying to stop the water before it finally leaks out of the concrete. Same with a French drain around the inside perimeter - you are just trying to do something with the water that is already inside your basement. It boils down to money and time and the intended use of the basement in the end. The interior solutions are much cheaper but not as likely to solve the problem completely. The exterior solutions stand a better chance of completely solving the problem but will cost more money and time.
OP
scott_vt
Super Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2004
- Messages
- 7,340
- Location
- east wells,vt
- Tractor
- 1986 MF 1040, 1942 Farmall A, 1949 Farmall Super A
Hi Jim,
I couldnt be in more agreement on all your commentary. Having said that, yes the water table is rising from under the foundation and eventually finding its way into the basement via that small gap at the base of the wall and floor. This season, I have to admit, it has been a constant source of annoyment. The temps have been much warmer than usual and we have had huge amounts of precipitation. As I commented in a previous post to Bmac, I would entertain the idea of digging up the foundation along the outside perimeter, but because I have a two car garage attached on the right side of the house, that is not an option. My feelings at this point are to go with the interior drain pipes in the floor and if I feel need additional help, to install a curtain drain on the left side of the property along the garage side. Of course, this is all prior to getting and reading the book that I ordered the other day.
As far as basement use, I have all my woodworking equipment down there, quite a few thousand dollars. Just the Delta Unisaw and extended fence is probablly $1600 or more now. 8" Delta joiner the same thing. This time of year I use the woodstove down there so humidity is not a problem, but come spring time and I have to start the dehumidifier not to rust the cast surfaces on the machinery /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif The plan is to eventually build a large garage/barn on my Vt property and move all that equipment up there. But for now, I dont have all the cash and I also dont want to increase my tax liability on that property until Im a little closer to retirement. Which is a little over 7 years away. Well Jim, I guess I gave you more than you asked for there, but thanks again for the help!
scotty
I couldnt be in more agreement on all your commentary. Having said that, yes the water table is rising from under the foundation and eventually finding its way into the basement via that small gap at the base of the wall and floor. This season, I have to admit, it has been a constant source of annoyment. The temps have been much warmer than usual and we have had huge amounts of precipitation. As I commented in a previous post to Bmac, I would entertain the idea of digging up the foundation along the outside perimeter, but because I have a two car garage attached on the right side of the house, that is not an option. My feelings at this point are to go with the interior drain pipes in the floor and if I feel need additional help, to install a curtain drain on the left side of the property along the garage side. Of course, this is all prior to getting and reading the book that I ordered the other day.
As far as basement use, I have all my woodworking equipment down there, quite a few thousand dollars. Just the Delta Unisaw and extended fence is probablly $1600 or more now. 8" Delta joiner the same thing. This time of year I use the woodstove down there so humidity is not a problem, but come spring time and I have to start the dehumidifier not to rust the cast surfaces on the machinery /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif The plan is to eventually build a large garage/barn on my Vt property and move all that equipment up there. But for now, I dont have all the cash and I also dont want to increase my tax liability on that property until Im a little closer to retirement. Which is a little over 7 years away. Well Jim, I guess I gave you more than you asked for there, but thanks again for the help!
scotty
Birdhunter1
Veteran Member
I'd dig up that area where you believe it to not be backfilled properly first and see if that is the cause.
I had a probel m not long ago in my basement as well, I starrted cutting out the floor to install a french drain system in the floor to a sump pit. I woudl have attached the cause but there is concrete galore aroudn my house, plus a carport on one side and a large patio on the other, it woudl have been in the thousands just to dig out and replace the concrete, plus hundreds of hours to take the carport and garage down to get a backhoe in there.
So I did the french drain method, I foudn a rusted pipe hoooked to the sewer line, except the sewer line went out the back of the house and this line was connected to it but ran towards the front.......
I cut the pipe near where the sewer goes out, filled it with concrete, the other end where it went out the frontdrains right into one of my trenches and eventually makes its way to the sump pump.
Got a big rain the day after I finished the entire thign (2 1/2 yards of concrete) and it worked perfectly. A rain just liek we had that day would've coated the floor of the basment with water maybe 1" deep.
There is actually more to that story right now but I can't comment for legal reasons.
In all I had 70' of trenches dug 16" wie and 18" deep.
The digging wasn't bad, the cleanup sucked.
To do it, go get a gas powered concrete saw with water attachment and a few blowers nd some good ear plugs. Set up blowers to evacuate fumes from saw.
Dig trenches 16"-18" deep, line it with landscape fabric (permacloth), put in 2"-3" of rock, put in perforated 4" pipe with eh holes pointed down, fill with rock stopping just shy of where grade will be, wrap cloth over the top, add another 1-2" of rock, put down plastic sheeting, install wire mesh and spike rebar into existing conrete then pour concrete.
The rost part is hauling out the dirt you dig out and hauling the rock in. The easiest part is putting the piping in.
Tip #1, keep the place clean as you work, it makes the final cleanup easier if you have ket it fairly clean as you go along.
To all of the above, don't ask me how I know!
I had a probel m not long ago in my basement as well, I starrted cutting out the floor to install a french drain system in the floor to a sump pit. I woudl have attached the cause but there is concrete galore aroudn my house, plus a carport on one side and a large patio on the other, it woudl have been in the thousands just to dig out and replace the concrete, plus hundreds of hours to take the carport and garage down to get a backhoe in there.
So I did the french drain method, I foudn a rusted pipe hoooked to the sewer line, except the sewer line went out the back of the house and this line was connected to it but ran towards the front.......
I cut the pipe near where the sewer goes out, filled it with concrete, the other end where it went out the frontdrains right into one of my trenches and eventually makes its way to the sump pump.
Got a big rain the day after I finished the entire thign (2 1/2 yards of concrete) and it worked perfectly. A rain just liek we had that day would've coated the floor of the basment with water maybe 1" deep.
There is actually more to that story right now but I can't comment for legal reasons.
In all I had 70' of trenches dug 16" wie and 18" deep.
The digging wasn't bad, the cleanup sucked.
To do it, go get a gas powered concrete saw with water attachment and a few blowers nd some good ear plugs. Set up blowers to evacuate fumes from saw.
Dig trenches 16"-18" deep, line it with landscape fabric (permacloth), put in 2"-3" of rock, put in perforated 4" pipe with eh holes pointed down, fill with rock stopping just shy of where grade will be, wrap cloth over the top, add another 1-2" of rock, put down plastic sheeting, install wire mesh and spike rebar into existing conrete then pour concrete.
The rost part is hauling out the dirt you dig out and hauling the rock in. The easiest part is putting the piping in.
Tip #1, keep the place clean as you work, it makes the final cleanup easier if you have ket it fairly clean as you go along.
To all of the above, don't ask me how I know!
OP
scott_vt
Super Member
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2004
- Messages
- 7,340
- Location
- east wells,vt
- Tractor
- 1986 MF 1040, 1942 Farmall A, 1949 Farmall Super A
Hi Birdhunter,
Thanks for your suggestions. I know this project is not going to be an easy one for sure. It wont happen till spring at the earliest, because I have wood along one wall for the wood stove and am not going to move that if I dont have to. That saw sounds like the way to go. Thanks.
scotty
ps What are you guys shooting out there, quail, grouse, woodcock?? I was never much good at it myself, but boy I could shoot the heck out of those skeet /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif probablly because I knew where they were coming from /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Thanks for your suggestions. I know this project is not going to be an easy one for sure. It wont happen till spring at the earliest, because I have wood along one wall for the wood stove and am not going to move that if I dont have to. That saw sounds like the way to go. Thanks.
scotty
ps What are you guys shooting out there, quail, grouse, woodcock?? I was never much good at it myself, but boy I could shoot the heck out of those skeet /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif probablly because I knew where they were coming from /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
