Water in Tires?

[SPYDERLK]

I use plain water in the 7520 here in central Virginia ... tubeless. Freezing is some problem after Jan 1, but seldom builds up enuf that I feel I have to let it sit. Well worth it for economics and all around convenience.
,,,larry

 

[FTG-05]

While they may look cool, steel weights, water/beet juice etc. in the tires is not a counter weight. They are useful for traction on the rear only. I say this because it doesn't remove any load from the front tires when using the FEL. In order to counter the weight of the FEL and load, the counterweight has to be behind the rear wheels. The further the counter weight sticks out behind the rear tires the better it works, to the extent that it doesn't start to be a maneuvering problem. A heavy 1000+ pound bush hog or disk makes a good counter weight. A 1000# tiller, box blade or ballast box that sets close to the tires wont be nearly as much use due to the shorter lever of the weight.

Oh yeah regarding use of steel weights. Weights are expensive to buy at around $2 per pound so that is why most folks use liquid ballast. 3 or 4 sets of 100# weights could set you back $1500 if bought new and at least $800 used if you can find any that will fit your tractor.

This is why I built my wheel weights out of lead, steel and concrete. About 260 lbs each. I made provisions to attach 45-100 barbell weights to the outside, assuming I find any for cheap.

 

[tcreeley]

A counter weight is anything on the other side of a pivot point. If the pivot point is the front tires/axle due to a loaded bucket of gravel, etc., then loaded rear tires or steel weights on rear tires are counter weights. Your choice- 3pt counter weight, loaded tires, steel weights. They all have their uses.

 

[davrow]

If the pivot point is the front tires/axle

I believe this is a conceptual problem. You cannot pivot on the front axle, all you can do is compress it until it breaks. Okay, more precisely, you CAN use the front axle as a pivot but you would have to have more weight in the bucket than the entire tractor weighs, and since the front axle is single-point bearing, the tractor will instantly fall over at that point. So it is purely theoretical.

Loaded tires do not act as a counterweight for front axle pivoting in practice, they act as additional downforce on the front axle (until you reach the point of tipping over or breaking the axle).

A counterweight behind the tractor does pivot on the rear tires, thus relieving weight from the front tires/axle.

 

[PHIL850]

Loaded rear tires put zero weight on the front Axle. in fact the weight isn't even on the rear axle. It is directly on the ground via the tires. Yes you can pivot on the front axle. Pick up a heavy weight such as a bucket full of gravel with no weight on the rear and yes you can stand the tractor on its nose. Been there done that and wont do it again.

 

[tonyoz]

Your spot on Phil, I've operated farm tractors and wheel loaders with water ballast in the tyres for all the reasons you mentioned and it does change the centre of gravity. End of story.

 

[NoTrespassing]

I believe this is a conceptual problem. You cannot pivot on the front axle, all you can do is compress it until it breaks. Okay, more precisely, you CAN use the front axle as a pivot but you would have to have more weight in the bucket than the entire tractor weighs, and since the front axle is single-point bearing, the tractor will instantly fall over at that point. So it is purely theoretical.

Loaded tires do not act as a counterweight for front axle pivoting in practice, they act as additional downforce on the front axle (until you reach the point of tipping over or breaking the axle).

A counterweight behind the tractor does pivot on the rear tires, thus relieving weight from the front tires/axle.

Huh? Before my rear tires were loaded, I could fill the bucket with gravel, with the tractor in 4 wheel drive and lift the rear tires off the ground in reverse. With the tires loaded that doesn't happen.

Kevin

 

[lutt]

You can and will pivot on the front axle! I've done this loading large round bales on larger tractors when I didn't stick one on the back. Also on my little 4200. When I unload 1000 pound pallets of animal bedding. The box blade would barely be enough counter weight. Now with the backhoe attachment, it's non issue. I need to ballast my rear tires more for traction now. The little tractor will spin when pushing before it gets the motor. LUTT

 

[kthompson]

I have M6800 Kubota that was delivered with weighted rims (rear) and filled rear tires. Have needed every pound of it at times with no front end loader but side ditch bank cutter on the 3 pth. As to tires bouncing when filled, think you will find it has the wrong level of fluid in them. No expert on all this but a little I was told will cause it to bounce and filled it has no choice but to bounce as the tire is so full of water with no air to compress when it hits something. Do not fill tires over top of the rim. Valve stem up, max fill line. kt

 

[DanD78]

I believe this is a conceptual problem. You cannot pivot on the front axle, all you can do is compress it until it breaks. Okay, more precisely, you CAN use the front axle as a pivot but you would have to have more weight in the bucket than the entire tractor weighs, and since the front axle is single-point bearing, the tractor will instantly fall over at that point. So it is purely theoretical.

Loaded tires do not act as a counterweight for front axle pivoting in practice, they act as additional downforce on the front axle (until you reach the point of tipping over or breaking the axle).

A counterweight behind the tractor does pivot on the rear tires, thus relieving weight from the front tires/axle.

The only thing correct in this post is the last line.

Dan D.

 

[kthompson]

Do not want to get into argument but use to work for a company that made cranes. One of the many jobs there I did over the years with them was full load testing of them. You do not have to have more weight than the machine to tip it. But you have to have more in this case in the fel than the weight behind the pivot point and yes it is the front axle for a fel. Now it is not only the weight in the fel it is all weight in front of the pivot point, even any tractor weight in front of the front axle. It is correct you will load that front axle very heavy when in tip situation for even if only for seconds if you can have the full load of the machine and it's load only on that axle. If you do tip it and the load is only say a foot off the ground as soon as the load hits the ground the movement of the machine stops. If the load is 10 feet in the air you will not be happy for it will not stop till that hits the ground and probably would not flip the tractor but the rear end sure would be up in the air. That is what a side mounted cutter can be so dangerous for you take a heavy load over the side again 10 feet in the air it probably would not just tip the tractor but lay it on the side as the width and weight are totally different than with fel. We tested the tip point with every machine we made. Using all kind of weights at all kinds of distance from the machine. Too long to remember the numbers fully but a machine that could lift I think 15 tons could be tip with 1 ton if extended out far enough.
This it the reason for all the warnings to transport loads LOW to the ground.

This is still true: "GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I WILL MOVE THE EARTH", Archimedes

One point want to ad as warning: a machine normally begins tipping slowly and then speeds up in the tipping for as it tips the fluids in the machine will flow to the lowest point which is toward the front in this case, as you tip you could also be moving even steel to being behind the pivot point to on it or in front so you are moving machine weight from being ballast to being part of the weight tipping you. Again reason to keep the load low for transport.

 

[Fallon]

The flaw in your 1' off the ground logic is the front axle pivot. If you are ever supported only by the front axle, your tractor will likely flop to one side or the other. At that point there is a great chance of rolling due to momentum, even if the stops prevent the tractor from flopping further.

 

[kthompson]

The flaw in your 1' off the ground logic is the front axle pivot. If you are ever supported only by the front axle, your tractor will likely flop to one side or the other. At that point there is a great chance of rolling due to momentum, even if the stops prevent the tractor from flopping further.

I load tested many machines and while they were not farm tractors they were built very similar. We never and I mean out of thousands of machines laid one on it's side. Even when tip testing over the side. That was not only myself as operator but many others. Then we knew the weight of what we were lifting, we were not thrown into the operators seat ignorant of what was going on and how to do safely and we were KNEW it WAS going to tip so we were operating prepared. We also were on level ground.

Now move to a different machine, dump truck or trailer. If you have them loaded heavy and are moving with heavy load and bed up or going up and the load is still heavy in the front of the bed you can easy lay it on its side. Have seen that happen even stopped raising their bed on a side slope. Look how high their load is though. The higher the load the greater the likely hood of it going over if it tips. I have dumped a few hundred trailer loads of dirt pulled with tractor and raising it while moving. The only time I laid one on its side was driving faster than I should have over unleveled ground and raising the bed at same time. It picked up a rocking action and it went. Had I not been raising the bed or on unleveled ground would have been fine. It was totally my fault.

Fallon with the fel tractor driving forward at high speed maybe what you are saying could happen. Our testing of the cranes were with the machine setting still for the tip test. We did tip test on rubber only also. However we did lift and carry loads and I think the rules there apply to anything toting a front load, SLOW speed. No doubt if you are running at high speed and the fel loader were to make quick contract with the ground it would not be good. Saw a man with a trailer hooked to the front bumper of his tractor push it for maybe 5 miles running wide open on public roads. Had that trailer jack knifed there is no doubt in my mind the tractor would have rolled. He played with steering it some at low speed and said "got it" and hit the throttle. I know, I was a dummy on the tractor with him too young to know fear but thank God for protecting us!

Not science here but: understand what you are doing, have idea the risk, play with the load under safe situation (such as sitting still with it low and moving slowly) to get a feel for it and the machine. THEN WATCH for the issue that will come, hole for tire to drop into, bank that can cave, unleveled ground that can set up motions, slopes. And it is not a car race, take turns slow. Also be sure tires are in good shape and fully inflated.

My belief is, protect the operator first (no bystanders should be in working area) then protect the equipment and then protect the crop or what you are working with or around.