Water In; Water Out

[StoneHeartFarm]

Bird,

Thanks for the link. I didn't know anything like this was even available. That IS one heck of a system, and it looks like it would take up less space than a septic and drainfield. It may be the wave of the future here. Michigan DEQ (dept of environmental quality) has been complaining about failing residential septic systems and talking about stiffer enforcement. We may all wind up with something very much like this in the near future. This would also allow a viable option for lake side homeowners who's property is too low to perk properly. Right now, these people have to put in a "Pump Up" system. Which means the tank and field go ontop of the ground and are covered with trucked in fill. Waste is then pumped from the house into the tank, since there usually isn't enough slope to make it run normally. I will keep this system in mind, maybe I can help some people out.

SHF

PS. We perk so good here that they don't even do perk tests anymore. Now they take a core sample down to about 6'. If there's sand and it's not dripping wet, you pass. I pulled my septic permit, flagged the spot, checked the next week and couldn't figure out who'd been digging those little narrow post holes out beside my new house. SHF

 

[Bird]

SHF, the first time I ever heard of these systems was when my brother told me about some homes built on a rocky island in a big lake in Alaska. He said they couldn't use septic systems and leach fields in that rock, and they couldn't let the effluent run into the lake (which was a drinking water supply for a town), so they were required to use this type of system. My brother's main reason for wanting it was that his property is solidly wooded and he would have had to take out too many trees for a properly sized leach field whereas this system just runs a 1" PVC line into the woods to a single sprinkler head. In my case, this clay doesn't perk well at all, and I could have used a single sprinkler head, but I wanted a "T" in the line and then to 2 sprinkler heads. And yes, I think this may be the system of the future. Five years ago, we couldn't find an installer within 75 miles of here that installed these, although several people are in the business of installing the old style septic systems. Now several of those septic system installers are selling and installing these aerobic systems.

And they don't do perk tests in my immediate neighborhood either; just a core sample (and the guy will tell you before he does it that he already knows the result; it won't perk/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif). But like a lot of crazy government rules; this is the kind of system you install if your ground won't perk, but even if this is what you decide initially to use, you still have to have a perk test or core sample done by an engineer before you get the permit to have it installed./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[StoneHeartFarm]

Bird,

I can give you a "crazy guvmint rule". The house I'm building is (until I saw your septic) a "state of the art" earth berm. With all the super insulating and high efficiency stuff that goes with. My wife and I spent 9 years saving and thinking about this. I drew the plans, and while I'm not a wiz at it, I THOUGHT I did pretty good. There was only one problem. Down the center of the house are two girders. One in the crawl space to hold the main floor and one under the second floor (1/2 story). I knew the thickness on the upper one, but I couldn't calculate the lower from the sketchy info in the building code hand out. So I asked the inspector when I applied for the permit what the code required. He told me he wasn't qualified to tell me and that I needed an engineer. AND, if I didn't get an engineer, he wouldn't stamp my plans. Fortunately, I know a couple of them fellas and so it was no problem getting a letter. (Surprise, I HAD calculated right!). /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif. I took the letter in and got my permit. It seemed strange that he couldn't tell me what the CODE was for that girder, but he sure can come and see if I've built it TO code. /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

SHF

 

[jimmoore]

Bird, you have a mini sewage treatment plant. Our citys treatment plant uses the same principle,only on a much larger scale. It has been used 10 years and the sludge drying beds have yet to be cleaned out. The bacteria eats up almost all the sludge, the water then goes trought an ultrviolet apparatus that kills all the bacteria before the water is discharged into the White River.

jim

 

[Bird]

SHF, that sure sounds familiar. I've heard lots of complaints about building officials who can't tell you what you need to do; but will tell you if they think it's wrong. And both my brother and I ran into something a little bit similar in getting permits for our sewer systems. I went in and asked the county sanitarian what all I needed, he told me, and I did that. Then when I took all the paperwork he asked for to him, he "remembered" something else (more forms and another trip to and from town), and I did that, then he "remembered" something else again. After 3 trips, I got my permit. But my brother couldn't get his until he went to the county commissioners to complain and told them he'd do whatever was required if someone would just tell him what that was. We now have a different county sanitarian, so I don't know whether it's gotten better or worse./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Bird

 

[jinman]

SHF I noted the link to the Norweco system before, but I'm including a photo (two actually) showing my system under construction and the way it looks now. My cabin (portable building) is my temporary dwelling until I get my house built. This system will be sufficient for this cabin and a 3-bedroom house. I've put labels on all the parts/tanks. If you are interested, I can give you more detail. I think soon these systems will be the only approved type of septic system. Mine was about $5,000 installed (about twice the cost of a conventional system) with a two-year service contract.
As you can see, it looks really ugly when it is being built. If you look at the attachment on the next message, you will see the finished grade with my water diverting terrace (and real grass).


JimI

 

[jinman]

The finished photo is attached.

JimI

 

[dmccarty]

Lordy, but I AM jealous of the prices you guys are getting!

Bird and I had a conversation months back about septic systems and I was shocked at the low prices you guys are getting for spray systems. Course, I'm more shocked at the price of what people are charging and getting for the same system.

Are you ready, 20,000-30,000 dollars. Yes you read it right. And I wrote it right! /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

We have poor soil, as does most of the county were the property is located. We have to put in a low pressure pipe system with fill dirt and the last qoute I got was 18,000 dollars. I got really ticked off about the whole thing and started researching the parts to put one of these things togather. I sure dont' see 18,000 much less 30,000. Its just a big scam up here from what I can tell. You have to have an engineer design the system and the spray system has to be approved by the STATE and not the county. The state has more paperwork to fill out.

My experiences with the county septic b'crat is just a plain soap opera. His bossed fired him last year, a few years short of his retirement date, for failure to perform. He had a Sheriff deputy deliver the pink slip and the SBI was called in to investivatethe guy. The man is now suing to get his job back even though the Arbitor said the county should give him his retirement and end the hole episode....

Our firiend who bought the property with us is getting divorced. They started a house in October, she filed for divorce in December and the house is 80% complete. But NO septic system so they are having a tough time finding a buyer! DUH! I DON"T understand WHYshe built the house before getting the spetic system installed and approved. The reason we got the price on the property in the first place was the poor soil. AND then we had the run around with the county spetic guy. So they have a $300,000 house with no spetic system and the bank ready to foreclose.... What a mess.....

North Carolina does NOT require a license to put in a septic system. I do have a plan from the engineer to install said system. Sure does not seem like rocket science to me. I sure can't see $18,000 much less 30,000. I'm real tempted to put the thing in myself.......

Later...
Dan RainingInNCAndIHaveTractorWorkToDo McCarty

 

[Bird]

<font color=blue>Mine was about $5,000 installed (about twice the cost of a conventional system) with a two-year service contract.</font color=blue>

My brother and I both paid an even $4,000 for ours installed. A brother-in-law paid $4,100 a couple of years later. But 6 years ago, it cost $3,800 to have a small regular septic system installed for a little mobile home because they had to haul sandy loam so far to build the evapotranspiration beds.

Bird

 

[Alan L.]

My Whitewater system was $5300 installed with 2 year maintenance. What I was referring to about my vents, is that the vent stacks did not go out the roof, but stopped in the attic. However the top of the vent pipe was not open, but rather has a one-way valve on it. It lets air in, but doesn't let the smelly air out into the attic. The "attic" in this case is really just the inside of my shop building above the living quarters. I wanted it done this way to avoid sticking the pipes out the roof.

The plumber says the system was not getting enough air for the bacteria to work properly, so he came and took the valve off one of my stacks and extended it out the side of the building with the end of the pipe open to let more air in.

There aren't any odors inside the house.

The water that comes out of my sprinklers is not chlorinated - my plumber says its not necessary. We have 2 sprinkler heads. My B-I-L who does water wells and septics down in Galveston County says he always sets his up for chlorination and that I am "dumping raw sewage" on the ground. I don't think its "raw sewage" in that it has been through the treatment plant and bears no resemblance to raw sewage.

As for our water, we don't have any staining of fixtures going on that I can detect, and our water is very soft also. It is just a little cloudy sometimes. Seems to be getting better all the time.

It seems that the vent extension might have fixed our odor problem, as I was out all day Friday and Saturday in 90 degree heat and I didn't detect any smell. The plumber says the Whitewater system gets its air through sewer pipes and does not have any other source.

There is a pump that seems to run a lot, but not all the time.

As for my 220 gallon pressure tank for my well water, with a water hose running it still only takes about 45 seconds for the pump to building the pressure from cut-on at 50 pounds to cuttoff at 70psi. What I read is that the tank should be 10 times the gpm of pump. My pump is a 25gpm, so I guess the tank is actually too small!

Running central air conditioning, heating my water, and pumping my water out of the well in my all-electric living quarters was only $139 last month for electricity, which seems very reasonable. The 5 HP pump really does not run very much. I questioned my well driller about the pressure setup whereby air is put back in the tank and he says it requires a hole in the pipe down in the bore, and water runs back in the hole on the outside of the galvanized pipe. He says this causes a lot of oxidation even to the point of the submersable pump breaking off the end of the pipe. I don't really buy it because so many people have the other setup.


Alan L., TX