Water main broke :(

[RobertN]

Given the pressure you believe is on that line, you might consider putting a thrust block next to that 90 sit it does not move again. Cheap insurance...

And yes, you got it right; fix it right once so you don't have to do it again...

 

[slydog]

Wow..i learn so much on this site. I never used primer before gluing pvc. Just slapped on the glue with a little twist. Of course I have never ran any lenghts of pipe outside underground. All of my plumbing experience has been under the house. However, I will get to put all of this good advice to work once I start improving my property in Arkansas.

 

[_RaT_]

You can use PVC water line in or under your house? In California, we cannot. Copper or PEX today is all that is allowed or should I least say is used. I'm going to consider PEX on my house. Exterior of the house will be all PVC.

For irrigation, I use Class 200 or SCH 40 depending on what I'm running. For my supplies, that is, anything that will be holding constant static pressure, I use sch 40 in the smaller sizes like 2". As I understand it, sch 40 pressure ratings vary depending on size. I know at some point they drop below 200 PSI whereas Class 200 remains at 200 PSI regardless of size.

 

[Westonium]

I've not seen class200 sold in any stores I frequent. That is interesting though.

Okay I have obviously have other faileures going on here. There seems to be a leak somewhere and I don't think the pressure tank is working right either.

I cannot seem to get the pressure switch (i've re-wired so it is just using one) will come on when the pressure is low at the house and shut off before going insanely high at the house. So there I am in the pumphouse on the cell with the wife whom I am instructing and getting reports from. We aren't even to the point of reading house pressure, we can't get it in the ballpark.

I've:
* fixed the rupture for the 3rd time. Despite priming like mad, the RainRShine glue didn't hold. I used the gray glue like _RaT_ does and it worked. The issue was the immense pressure being built, and the pump shut-off shockwave as the water stops going up and settles in the pipe.
* switched from using 2 pressure switches to using just the one. It was evidently done to be able to get the system to stay in a pressure range quite high at the pump. I just want working water so I'll settle for lower for a while if that's what it takes.
* The system is on at the moment so I could wash my muddy clothes, take a shower, etc. What a PIA

There are only 2 wires involved with the switch and the other 2 are jumpered. Why? Because it is just a switch line that comes off of the pump controller. Evidently when you get into the 3hp size, it needs one of those.

Process goes like this:
* I shut off service connect
* adjust pressure switch
* turn serice connect back on
* see if the pump will kick on before losing all pressure at the house (it kept going down to a trickle)
* or see if the pump will shut off before making the hot water heaters squeal

 

[_RaT_]

Typically at the pressure tank they use some form of pressure relief. I have seen multiple TP valves like they use on water heaters which will pop when you exceed 125 PSI typically. You also can help eliminate that head pressure at pump shut off by installing check valves in the supply line. On a sytem I installed using dual booster pumps, they did not install any check valves in the line up to the house. A column of water about 3000' long on a elevation change of about 200' and a 5 HP booster pump shutting down made the gauge pulse to 170 PSI. After installing the check valves, it stopped all pulsing when the pump shut off. You do have one check valve prior to entering the well, you could probably use one up the hill a bit. It does sound like you are having a pressure sensing problem. I really would consider a new pressure switch, they are cheap. By putting in a new one, you can verify if there is debris interfering with the old pressure switch as well. Don't forget to check the precharge on the tank either.

 

[Westonium]

I checked the pre-charge on the water tank, and it was insanely high. My tire pressure gauge only goes to 120 and it pegged the stick. I don't know what that tells me though.

Funny you mentioned the check valve - I installed one yesterday so that if the main blew apart again, I'd still have a bit left in the house. The other times we were left with nothing. I'm glad it had other benefits.

I looked at the pressure switches they had at the local hardware yesterday, but they were all pretty low pressure range. 6 pegs of them, all the same /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I'm calling the plumbing giant today to see if they have switches in stock (probably do) and to get pricing on that Wirsbo PEX.

I have some idea where that break in the line *might* be. There is evidently a line off of the house that goes toward the 1 car garage and a 2 room outbuilding. I don't know if there is a service shut off for that - if so its way under the house /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif. There are mice down there and they bug me. Only because I feel vulnerable lowcrawling down there. We know why there were/are mice now too. The previous idiot occupants used a drawer in the laundry room as a dog food storage - as in just poured in there. We took a large drawer unit out and lo and behold, a 1 inch layer of dog food under where one big drawer was. Its cleaned up now and we have the mouse entry-exit filled.

I just keep repeating "We bought it for the location, We bought it for the location, We bought it for the location..."

 

[Westonium]

I won't be able to get the pricing until tomorrow, but they promised to call me back with it.

I found a website that walks you through sizing an appropriate pressure tank for your system, and it appears that my pressure tank is incredibly inadequate. It suggests at least 3 of the size that I currently have. I really don't have a good place for them right now, unless I put a bunch of smaller ones together in the crawlspace... ok maybe not a good idea.

I am thinking of using a potable water cistern located another 75 feet higher in elevation and about 300 feet further.

If I get a PEX main installed, it should absorb some of the stresses. I am upsizing it to 1.5" from 1.25'.

 

[_RaT_]

Did you ever mention how deep the pump sits? Your pump is exceptionally large unless it is very deep. From what you are saying though, it sounds like it is just a overkill on the pump. My pump for example is a 3/4 HP at about 100'. It pumps the pump max which is about 20 GPM. I don't use it to irrigate. The pressure tank issue certainly applies to you as the larger the pump, the greater the need for more "pressure" storage so you don't short cycle the pump quite so frequently. Have you heard of the new constant pressure pumps? They start at zero RPM and increase RPM to match demand, all the way up to 10,000 RPM. Little or no pump torque. Pressure is easily adjustable anytime up to about 90 PSI. I will definitely consider one when my current pump dies.

 

[ByronBob]

Just for reference my system has a 20 gallon pressure tank. My 3/4 hp pump is 50 feet deep and 125 feet of level distance to the basement.

I'd try the new switch myself and eliminate that potential issue next. You have a new gage in the pump house correct?
What does it read when your running water.

 

[JeffSpencer]

Westonium,

We use #12, coated, single strand wire when we bury underground Polyethylene (plastic) gas lines. Don't forget to bring the wire above ground so you can hook up to it for locating purposes.

Jeff