Water to outbuilding

[teejk]

Probably addressed already but I'm lazy...when we built the house I also built a shop building 100' away. I had the well driller run 1" poly water pipe to the shop since the trenching guy was on site twidling his thumbs (I ran 100a electrictic service at the same time). I didn't have to worry about disturbing the driveway at a later time that way.
So the well into the house enters about 8' below grade. The pipe to the shop (on a shut-off valve from the pressure tank) also exits at about the same depth.
So now thinking about bringing water into the shop. I'm fine with everything other than that 3 or 4 feet of pipe that emerges from below the frost line before it enters the shop. It gets VERY cold here so that is a potential issue. Plus I do keep the shop heated when required but there might come a time where I don't want to.
Any thoughts will be welcomed.

 

[dave1949]

Does/will the 3'-4' of water pipe come up through the shop floor, or will it up come up outside the shop and then in through a wall?

 

[mbohuntr]

look at frost free hydrants... great for out buildings in cold climates.

 

[Jeff F.]

I have the same issue. I keep my shop heated all winter but the waterline is too shallow the last few feet. I winterize the line every fall with air then rv antifreeze.

 

[Budweiser John]

Frost free hydrants work well as long as there is plenty of drainage space for the water to escape when the hydrant is closed after use in freezing weather. I have 5 hydrants on my place and when installed, placed a length of 4" perforated drain tile in the trench below the frost line and a generous amount of gravel to provide a leaching bed. Lots of heavy clay around here so not much percolation.
Hydrants made by 'Iowa' seem to be the best in my opinion as you can adjust the flow of water depending on the need.

 

[Ken45101]

I like the perf drain tile idea! Thanks.

 

[teejk]

Does/will the 3'-4' of water pipe come up through the shop floor, or will it up come up outside the shop and then in through a wall?

Up through the floor. Before we poured we set a piece of 4" PVC at about a 45 degree angle. I wasn't here when the trench was plowed but the digger has been around for a long time and was taking orders from the well driller so I'm assuming the pipe is at least 6' down until it starts its rise into the building. So I have that little length that could freeze outside the building plus I may not want to keep the shop heated at all times so inside freezing could be a problem too. I'm thinking my only option is to start with a 1" tee into the pipe, cap the top and proceed to build the water line off the side of the tee. I guess if it ever becomes a problem I could pop the cap on the tee and pump out enough water to get out of harms way.

 

[teejk]

I have the same issue. I keep my shop heated all winter but the waterline is too shallow the last few feet. I winterize the line every fall with air then rv antifreeze.

You know the climate and seem to understand the issue. Did you ever freeze up even with a heated shop? And since you winterize I guess you forego any water in the shop during the winter. Ideally the well guys would have piped something on the house side to permit a drain of maybe 2-3 gallons of water to get everything below the frost line (wouldn't have worked last winter since 10' was reported in some spots). but in a normal year I think that's all it would take. As it is now there is no way to push or pull water through the piping so seems the only way would be to close the valve on the house side and pump water out on the shop side using a little Pony pump or something similar.

 

[dave1949]

It sounds like the pipe sweeps up from the lower trench depth outside to within 3-4 feet of the floor inside? It would be difficult to install or replace a frost free hydrant without making a hole in the concrete floor large enough to work at the bottom of the 4' depth I think. Maybe someone could dangle you by your knees while you use a stubby screwdriver. :laughing: A frost free hydrant assumes the valve at the foot never freezes.

Since it is inside the building with some residual heat (it's going to be warmer in the building than outside), perhaps a covered, insulated pit with a light bulb for heat would keep the pipe thawed below the floor. You could use a union to just continue bringing the pipe up to floor level. At/above the floor you could transition to metal pipe and wrap a short heat tape on it. Some of that heat will will warm the water in the pipe for several feet anyways.

The pit could be made from 15" culvert pipe with some spray foam around the outside or inside. The light bulb could be plugged into a thermostat outlet. If you can find adjustable outlets, you could use two bulbs set 5 degrees apart for backup.

It only takes a little bit of heat to keep a small, sheltered and well insulated space above 40 degrees or so. Insulation is the key no matter how you do it.

Just some ideas.

 

[teejk]

It sounds like the pipe sweeps up from the lower trench depth outside to within 3-4 feet of the floor inside? It would be difficult to install or replace a frost free hydrant without making a hole in the concrete floor large enough to work at the bottom of the 4' depth I think. Maybe someone could dangle you by your knees while you use a stubby screwdriver. :laughing: A frost free hydrant assumes the valve at the foot never freezes.

Since it is inside the building with some residual heat (it's going to be warmer in the building than outside), perhaps a covered, insulated pit with a light bulb for heat would keep the pipe thawed below the floor. You could use a union to just continue bringing the pipe up to floor level. At/above the floor you could transition to metal pipe and wrap a short heat tape on it. Some of that heat will will warm the water in the pipe for several feet anyways.

The pit could be made from 15" culvert pipe with some spray foam around the outside or inside. The light bulb could be plugged into a thermostat outlet. If you can find adjustable outlets, you could use two bulbs set 5 degrees apart for backup.

It only takes a little bit of heat to keep a small, sheltered and well insulated space above 40 degrees or so. Insulation is the key no matter how you do it.

Just some ideas.

Yeah...stays underground for most of the trip then starts to rise (on the outside) at that 45 degree angle and enters that building pretty close to the sidewall. Currently is a "stub" inside the building rising 2' from the finished floor. The shop is radiant infloor and does have some residual heat but as noted I want the option of turning that off if I want (e.g. if LP gets to $5 again). The soil is sand/gravel and the building does have a decent soffit on it. What I'm afraid of is water most of the way, then a popsicle when it is almost there. I guess I'll plumb it with my idea of a capped "tee" so I can pump the water out if it looks like a problem need be.