Wax and Grease Remover

[MasseyWV]

Can anyone suggest a good wax and grease remover, to be used prior to priming/painting bare metal?

Previously, I've always used Prep-All with good results, but it seems that my local sources have all dried up and buying it online is not an option because shipping it would cost more than buying it. I'd like to find something that is carried by Walmart, Lowes, Home Depot, Ace Hardware, Napa, Autozone, or Advance Auto Parts.

The website for the makers of Prep-All claim that Walmart, Lowes and many others carry it, but that is not the case, at least not here anyway.

Prep-All - Klean-Strip Automotive

 

[Just Bill]

All of those places sell Mineral Spirits
Have you considered using Zinc Phosphate before painting?
Its supposed to work great for prepping bare metal

 

[MasseyWV]

All of those places sell Mineral Spirits
Have you considered using Zinc Phosphate before painting?
Its supposed to work great for prepping bare metal

I haven't had very good luck with mineral spirits, probably because the stuff that's locally available isn't very pure. Normally, I sandblast, clean, prime, then paint. Occasionally, I also use an etching primer on bare metal, prior to priming it for paint, but I've never used zinc phosphate for bare metal prep.

 

[Eddie89]

Paint thinner and acetone work pretty good

 

[Gary Fowler]

Acetone is the best cleaner but it is flammable and it will eat up many plastics and you will need some good chemical gloves to wear when applying it. Also need pure cotton rags to apply it with as lots of the polyesters seem to dissolve.

 

[Eddie89]

Acetone is the best cleaner but it is flammable and it will eat up many plastics and you will need some good chemical gloves to wear when applying it. Also need pure cotton rags to apply it with as lots of the polyesters seem to dissolve.

You can buy a box of 100% cotton rags. You don't need to where anything special. It will evaporator real fast if there's any wind at all.

 

[Just Bill]

This may work for you but may be too much trouble to mess with.
Eastwood After Blast - Metal Prep
Eastwood After Blast - Metal Prep

Its just another option

 

[strum456]

Wax and grease remover works by suspending or floating the contaminates, allowing them to be wiped from the surface. You can wipe on with one rag and off with another. Another way that I prefer is to use a spray bottle to apply the w&g remover and then wipe with a rag.

Acetone, lacquer thinner, mineral spirits, etc. should not be used as w&g remover mainly because they evaporate too quickly to allow the contaminates to be wiped off. These products are not intended to be used this way and in some cases could actually cause contamination.

Acid wash products: don't use them. They can leave residue inside seams and gaps especially that can cause rust. Acid wash does work well for removing rust on solid parts that don't have anywhere for the acid to hide. Acid must be washed off WHEN WET. If allowed to dry, the acid will need to be reactivated with acid, then washed off. The best way to neutralize acid: don't use it to begin with.

Now, back to your original question. I use Southern Polyurethanes wax and grease remover. Part #700 (waterborne) and #710 (solvent based). Call them at 706-781-2220 and they will ship it to you (free shipping). Another option would be to get some from an automotive paint store. I would not use anything from any of the big box stores when it comes to wax and grease remover.

 

[MasseyWV]

I use Southern Polyurethanes wax and grease remover. Part #700 (waterborne) and #710 (solvent based).

I was wondering if it might be possible to make my own wax and grease remover by blending various chemical ingredients commonly available at the hardware store.

However, manufacturers of wax and grease removers are often vague about the exact ingredients they contain, so I turned to the material safety data sheets to determine what the ingredients were. Even then, they are still vague, but the CAS number is a dead giveaway to the chemical and common names of each ingredient. Using Klean Strip Prep-All and #710 Wax & Grease Remover as a basis for comparison, it seems that mineral sprits, naptha, and toluene make up the bulk of the ingredients, with either cyclohexane or heptane being used as a non-polar solvent to remove wax.

Klean Strip Prep-All:
CAS#64742-89-8 Naphtha 60-100% (industrial solvent, white gas, Coleman fuel)
CAS#805241-3 Mineral Spirits 7-13% (stoddard solvent, paint thinner)
CAS#108-88-3 Toluene 5-10% (common solvent, paint thinner)
CAS#142-82-5 Heptane 1-5% (non-polar solvent)

#710 Wax & Grease Remover:
CAS#805241-3 Mineral Spirits 50-80% (stoddard solvent, paint thinner)
CAS#64742-89-8 Naphtha 10-30% (industrial solvent, white gas, Coleman fuel)
CAS#108-88-3 Toluene 1-10% (common solvent, paint thinner)
CAS#110-82-7 Cyclohexane 1-10% (non-polar solvent)

Using the data shown above, one can deduce the approximate percentage of each ingredient. Note the differences in the amount of Naphtha and Mineral Spirits used in each, which raises the question... Which is better Naphtha or Mineral Spirits? Naphtha evaporates more quickly and is less oily than mineral spirits, so it seems that Naphtha would be a better solvent. However, Mineral spirits is better for thinning oils, varnishes, and oil-based paints.

Klean Strip Prep-All:
Naphtha - 80%
Mineral Spirits - 10%
Toluene - 8%
Heptane - 2%

#710 Wax & Grease Remover:
Mineral Spirits - 70%
Naphtha - 20%
Toluene - 5%
Cyclohexane - 5%

Solvent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
White spirit - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Naphtha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Toluene - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cyclohexane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Heptane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Curiously, the ingredients of both are very similar to those of WD-40.

WD-40 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[EE_Bota]

I mostly use acetone, and when I use it, I don't wipe, I brush wash instead. I turn the object up on edge, etc, and start at the top and brush the acetone on with a paint brush, and make the acetone run down and off the part. Every part of it gets brushed. This may be a stupid technique but my painting results have been adequate for me so far.

 

[strum456]

It looks like you have done your homework. Perhaps you could make your own, but I am not a chemist and I really have no idea what the results would be. Shipped to your door, I believe the stuff I use is $24 per gallon. When improper paint prep could ruin an entire paint job, and problems might not start to apperar until after much time and cost has been spent, it is just not worth it in my opinion to experiment with such things.

One thing that I will add is that the waterborne wax and grease remove does get the surface cleaner than solvent based. However, solvent based is far superior for removing adhesives (masking tape, pin stripes, etc.). Ideally, you would use the solvent based first, and then the waterborne. You will notice everything the solvent based missed on your rag after using the waterborne. Also, solvent based cleaners cannot be used on many plastic bumpers. Waterborne is much safer on plastics.

 

[MasseyWV]

It looks like you have done your homework. Perhaps you could make your own, but I am not a chemist and I really have no idea what the results would be. Shipped to your door, I believe the stuff I use is $24 per gallon. When improper paint prep could ruin an entire paint job, and problems might not start to apperar until after much time and cost has been spent, it is just not worth it in my opinion to experiment with such things.

Last night, shortly after creating this thread, I managed to locate an online supplier that was very reasonable on their shipping rates so I ordered a gallon of Klean Strip Prep-All. I've used it for years and know it's good stuff. I waited to mention it because I wanted to see what people suggested.

After having restored many cars in the last 30 years, I know my way around a spray gun, and agree that good prep isn't something to mess around with. Like you, I'm no chemist, which is why I turned to existing formulas for guidance, because chemical interactions can be dangerous and unpredictable.

However, I was thinking it might be interesting to experiment a little and see what I could come up with, because it's always nice to have alternate low-cost sources for supplies. It's also nice to know how to make your own, just in case the company who makes it goes out of business or local suppliers stop carrying it. Any experimentation would be done on "test" pieces so no harm would be done if the "recipe" didn't turn out quite right.

 

[EE_Bota]

It looks like you have done your homework. Perhaps you could make your own, but I am not a chemist and I really have no idea what the results would be. Shipped to your door, I believe the stuff I use is $24 per gallon. When improper paint prep could ruin an entire paint job, and problems might not start to apperar until after much time and cost has been spent, it is just not worth it in my opinion to experiment with such things.

One thing that I will add is that the waterborne wax and grease remove does get the surface cleaner than solvent based. However, solvent based is far superior for removing adhesives (masking tape, pin stripes, etc.). Ideally, you would use the solvent based first, and then the waterborne. You will notice everything the solvent based missed on your rag after using the waterborne. Also, solvent based cleaners cannot be used on many plastic bumpers. Waterborne is much safer on plastics.

I am not a chemist for sure...though I did use acetone to clean my glassware in my organic chemistry classes. On plastics I tend to use 90% isopropyl alcohol. I may test a paint with acetone to see if it is an alkyd paint sometimes, but in general, if I am cleaning a painted surface in advance of repainting, I tend to stay clear of acetone and use the alcohol instead. A buddy who is a materials engineer and head of technical in a finishing company says that acetone will mess up alkyd paint, and even if the new paint is not an alkyd, the underlying paint is a poor substrate if it is an alkyd that was acetone washed. He said that is a mess, and he'd slap me if he caught me doing that.

 

[MasseyWV]

Acetone is the best cleaner but it is flammable and it will eat up many plastics and you will need some good chemical gloves to wear when applying it. Also need pure cotton rags to apply it with as lots of the polyesters seem to dissolve.

I am not a chemist for sure...though I did use acetone to clean my glassware in my organic chemistry classes. On plastics I tend to use 90% isopropyl alcohol. I may test a paint with acetone to see if it is an alkyd paint sometimes, but in general, if I am cleaning a painted surface in advance of repainting, I tend to stay clear of acetone and use the alcohol instead. A buddy who is a materials engineer and head of technical in a finishing company says that acetone will mess up alkyd paint, and even if the new paint is not an alkyd, the underlying paint is a poor substrate if it is an alkyd that was acetone washed. He said that is a mess, and he'd slap me if he caught me doing that.

My understanding is that acetone is a great degreaser, but because it's harmful to many paints and most plastics, it's generally not a good idea to use it in certain applications like tractor restorations.

Acetone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[EE_Bota]

My understanding is that acetone is a great degreaser, but because it's harmful to many paints and most plastics, it's generally not a good idea to use it in certain applications like tractor restorations.

Acetone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the second paragraph, it was said to be used as a paint thinner. I doubt seriously that can be taken as a blanket statement to mean it is a great thinner for all paints. It is cheap as dirt, for sale everywhere, and it and isopropyl alcohol has suited my needs so far.
But frequently, though I use it for bare metal, many times blasted metal can be blown off with dry air, and painted immediately.

I have prepared some things with Dawn liquid and water. But some metals start the rusting process immediately at the micro level, and some folks think it is important to keep water away from metal before painting. A tack cloth can be use for dust removal instead of washing...it all depends on what a man wants, what he needs, and what he has I suppose.

I like acetone because it is a great solvent, with a hydrophobic and a hydrophilic end, so it shares that aspect with "soap" (but does not form micelle body per se), but definitely is broad from the "like solvates like" perspective, and evaporates when done. That is pretty close to perfect in my book for my uses. Folks should take it or leave it, but it is too handy not to be in my arsenal.

 

[MasseyWV]

I like acetone because it is a great solvent, with a hydrophobic and a hydrophilic end, so it shares that aspect with "soap" (but does not form micelle body per se), but definitely is broad from the "like solvates like" perspective, and evaporates when done. That is pretty close to perfect in my book for my uses. Folks should take it or leave it, but it is too handy not to be in my arsenal.

Like you, I also use acetone for many things, I just avoid using it during any part of a restoration because of it's potential for harming paints and plastics.

 

[Just Bill]

Thanks MasseyWV
Thats some great info
It also needs to be mentioned that just because something says "Waterborne"
doesn't mean its 100% safe.

 

[MasseyWV]

Thanks MasseyWV
Thats some great info
It also needs to be mentioned that just because something says "Waterborne"
doesn't mean its 100% safe.

You're welcome and I agree. In fact, some of the most toxic substances on Earth happen to be water soluble.