Weather underground alternative?

[Runner]

Yes, it's on it's scheduled for after 1pm today. Right now, it's still just outside DFW, and the radar is showing a lot of bright colors. Local news is saying 2 inches with flooding possible.

I'm home recovering from Covid, and debating on mowing the grass before it hits, and risking feeling worse afterwards, or just resting and mowing another day.

Reading the NWS forecast discussion for Ft Worth area

National Weather Service

forecast.weather.gov

and looking at the parameters for this evening it does look like there could be some severe stuff close to you tonight.

I'm a terrible forecaster, but I do like to try to follow along with the discussions and see if I can figure out how the pros reach their conclusions.

Hope it misses you.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm in Tyler, about 100 miles East of Dallas. It's getting stronger and working its way here. Forecast is still for after 1pm. Current threat for a Tornado is Level 3 at 11am.

We don't have a storm shelter, or a secure place if a tornado hits. The closest one that has touched down was 5 miles away. We could hear it but never saw anything. We did have one track right over our house according to the radar and local news station, but we never heard or saw anything.

A couple years ago, I just finished a job in Tyler, and while driving to the bank to deposit my check, the Tornado Sirens started up. It was sunny when I left the job, but in ten minutes, the sky got dark and then the rain started. It was super heavy, and the wind was so strong that I pulled over into a parking to let it pass. The wind was so bad that my truck started bouncing around violently. I can't say for sure, but it felt like my tires might of left the ground as it bounced up and down so much. That is the closest that I've been to a Tornado. It was an EF0, and it only touched down in a couple places as it passed over Tyler.

 

[ponytug]

@EddieWalker I hope that you feel better soon.
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Having lived in tornado prone areas for decades, I appreciate the ability to retreat to a basement or shelter during tornado probabilities. Perhaps it is just an old habit, or an artifact of family brushes with tornados, but I found it of comfort.

I think that the drop in shelters are straightforward, but not cheap;

Survive-a-Storm Shelters Max 10 ft. x 6 ft. Below-Ground Tornado Storm Shelter SASBL1006 - The Home Depot

Bring style and value to your garage or work space by selecting this durable Survive a Storm Shelters Max BelowGround Tornado Storm Shelter.

www.homedepot.com

I have thought about them for fire shelter here.

Stay safe out there!

All the best,

Peter

 

[EddieWalker]

I have two clients that have something like this. They are buried right behind their houses, in their back yards. Other than opening it up when they first moved in, neither of them has ever gone into it when a Tornado was in the area. It's usually just after dark, storming out with heavy rain, and tons of lightning in the area.

We thought about building a tornado shelter in our garage, but now we're going to convert a room into a second master bedroom closet and build it according to FEMA plans for tornados. It's just one of those things that can't happen until ten other things get done first.

In my opinion, if it's easy to get to, it will be used.

I've seen several new homes that have the master closet built as a Safe Room. Two doors to get into it. A normal door that swings out, and a massive Safe Door that swings in. From what I've been told, venting those rooms has been the biggest issue with the City, and passing inspection. They are still trying to figure this out and it seems to change from building to building.

 

[ponytug]

I have two clients that have something like this. They are buried right behind their houses, in their back yards. Other than opening it up when they first moved in, neither of them has ever gone into it when a Tornado was in the area. It's usually just after dark, storming out with heavy rain, and tons of lightning in the area.

We thought about building a tornado shelter in our garage, but now we're going to convert a room into a second master bedroom closet and build it according to FEMA plans for tornados. It's just one of those things that can't happen until ten other things get done first.

In my opinion, if it's easy to get to, it will be used.

I've seen several new homes that have the master closet built as a Safe Room. Two doors to get into it. A normal door that swings out, and a massive Safe Door that swings in. From what I've been told, venting those rooms has been the biggest issue with the City, and passing inspection. They are still trying to figure this out and it seems to change from building to building.

Sadly, easy to get to is a big deal for many. I know of a study that showed a 1/4 mile trail dissuaded 90% of State Parks' visitors from visiting. For better or worse, I think that those buried shelters really do benefit from being exposed so that there isn't debris on the door after the event.

Yes, I am inclined to agree with the inspectors that venting is a big deal for health and well-being and for the conflicting demand/pressure of tornado driven depressurization, the force of the latter increases as the room wall and ceiling area goes up, making small safe rooms easier to engineer than large ones. Other than SCBA tanks, I can't say that I have ever seen a solution that seemed "ok", other than a 3" hand cranked fan vent and a heck of a door with matching hinges and latch. An EF4 was measured at about a 1.4psi drop, which over a 5'x30" door is on the order of 2700lbs of force. That needs some great anchors.

Can you use reinforced concrete walls for the converted closet? (Strength, plus weight to anchor it in place...)

All the best,

Peter

 

[EddieWalker]

The way I have it planned, is I'll remove the sheeting from the upstairs bedroom and build inside the existing walls with cinder blocks. Rebar inside the blocks that goes down under the existing slab and is bent for a new footer that is deeper and wider than the cut in the slab. The rebar will come up through the cinder blocks and bend over for the ceiling. Then I'll pour the ceiling from the upstairs bedroom. Overall, it doesn't sound very difficult. It's just a matter of taking the time to focus on it and get it done once I start.

I still haven't figured out how to vent it other than putting some PVC pipe through the walls on different sides to let air in. But I'm not really comfortable with that idea, it's just a starting point in my planning.

The door will be bought from a Safe Company. Prices seem to be in the $3,500 range for a door with a frame and handles.

FEMA has all the plans online; I'm just going to follow them.

 

[ponytug]

The way I have it planned, is I'll remove the sheeting from the upstairs bedroom and build inside the existing walls with cinder blocks. Rebar inside the blocks that goes down under the existing slab and is bent for a new footer that is deeper and wider than the cut in the slab. The rebar will come up through the cinder blocks and bend over for the ceiling. Then I'll pour the ceiling from the upstairs bedroom. Overall, it doesn't sound very difficult. It's just a matter of taking the time to focus on it and get it done once I start.

I still haven't figured out how to vent it other than putting some PVC pipe through the walls on different sides to let air in. But I'm not really comfortable with that idea, it's just a starting point in my planning.

The door will be bought from a Safe Company. Prices seem to be in the $3,500 range for a door with a frame and handles.

FEMA has all the plans online; I'm just going to follow them.

Putting the exhaust vent and the intake vent on the same wall/ceiling minimizes differential pressure effects. I would put inverted "P" or "U" traps to keep out wind driven water.

On the door, I would be mindful of the total force on the door anchors at an over pressure of 1-2psi. I think it is easy to underestimate the forces.

Personally, I liked the FEMA documents, although I found reading some of the hurricane regulations in Florida and Hawaii vis-à-vis hurricane code to be more helpful to me. My grandparents lived in a hurricane and tsunami prone area for a bit, so my grandfather designed the the first floor walls to be "blow out" (light weight plywood dividers basically) walls from the ocean towards land, leaving a reinforced concrete "tunnel" supporting the upstairs that had reinforced concrete walls to keep the upstairs safe. It was never put to the test AFAIK, and no I don't know how the discussions went with the building inspectors. Regardless, he got it built (1965?), and I never heard of any pushback.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ponytug]

@EddieWalker one more thing; if the vents are on the door side of the enclosure, then the force on the door is minimized.

All the best, Peter

 

[EddieWalker]

Thanks. I hadn't really thought about what side to put the vents.

What will happen is when I'm getting ready to start this, I'll create a thread on here and start asking questions. Every time I've done this, people have come up with better ways to do it then I thought of.

 

[ponytug]

Thanks. I hadn't really thought about what side to put the vents.

What will happen is when I'm getting ready to start this, I'll create a thread on here and start asking questions. Every time I've done this, people have come up with better ways to do it then I thought of.

The wonders and strength of TBN!

All the best, Peter