Welder hooked up backwards

Pooh_Bear · Jun 29, 2005

I know nothing about welders. I have never welded.

I recently bought a welder off ebay for five dollars.
It is one of those little Harbor Freight hobby welders.
Welder on ebay
I don't know if it works yet.
It came to me missing the electrode holder and the power cord plug.
I knew these would be missing when I bought it.

So I went and got a plug for the electric cord,
and I got an electrode holder and was gonna install them.
First thing I notice is I got the wrong plug.

Then I notice the ground clamp is on the wrong cable. (I think).
I am reasonable certain that the ground clamp should be on the other cable.
But before I change them I wanted to check here.

What could I possibly run into with this.
Could someone have actually welded like this and damaged it.
Could someone have done this one purpose. Why.

I need some feedback on this.

Thanks.

Pooh Bear

Here is some pictures I took of it.
The first picture shows the ground clamp and the cable it is hooked to.
The second picture shows the other cable.
The third picture is just a picture of the welder.

MadReferee · Jun 29, 2005

The top cable is for the electrode and the bottom is for the ground, if I can make out that picture clearly.

You can download the operators manual from the Harbor Freight site, although it doesn't say much. Here is a link.

Hobby Arc welder description

Hobby Arc welder manual

SkyPup · Jun 29, 2005

Operating a welder without proper instructions is extremely dangerous for a novice. Be sure to get the instructions and read and understand them prior to attempting to use this machine.

Pooh_Bear · Jun 29, 2005

I downloaded the manual.
And I got gloves and a auto-darkening helmet.
I know the basic idea. Now just need practice.

But why would it be hooked up the way it is.
And could it have hurt anything to weld with it having the hookups reversed.

I hate to think that I paid $5 (+$40 shipping) for junk.

How can I test it to make sure everything is ok.

Thanks.

Pooh Bear

MadReferee · Jun 29, 2005

( But why would it be hooked up the way it is.)

Because the previous owner couldn't read or was just plain stupid. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

( And could it have hurt anything to weld with it having the hookups reversed.)

With this unit, probably not, but I think you would need a reverse polarity rod for good results.

( I hate to think that I paid $5 (+$40 shipping) for junk.)

Maybe you did. The duty cycle on this thing is only 15% at 65 amps and 6% at 95 amps. This means that if you weld for 90 seconds you have to wait 8.5 minutes to weld again. And that's at 65 amps. At 95 amps you get only about 40 seconds of welding time out of every 10 minutes. Ouch. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

And it is only rated for 1/16" rods. Don't plan on doing anything useful with this.

The gloves and helmet are worth about what you paid for the entire unit including shipping, so it might not be a total loss.

( How can I test it to make sure everything is ok.)

Try it, and pray. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Soundguy · Jun 29, 2005

( With this unit, probably not, but I think you would need a reverse polarity rod for good results.
)

I was under the impression that these small welders were AC welders.. not DC....

Soundguy

MadReferee · Jun 29, 2005

Yep, your are right, my mistake. I just looked at the schematic and one end of the output winding goes to the ground clamp and the other goes to the electrode. Now unless there is something missing that the schematic is not telling us, then no damage should have happened. However, I'm not sure I trust any schematic from HF.

Highbeam · Jun 29, 2005

On an AC machine it shouldn't matter one bit which way it's hooked up. You are just connecting the circuit with the arc. The electrons are coming and going and switching directions sixty times per second.

1/16" rod will be fine for lots of things. Light work for sure. Think exhaust pipe type material, tacking things together, that sort of thing.

Soundguy · Jun 29, 2005

I've done a heck of alot of sheet metal welding with 5/64 and 1/16 rods on my cambel hausfeld - wallmart little ac 70a buzzbox. Re-made a battery box on my allsi-g.. etc. Soundguy

Pooh_Bear · Jun 29, 2005

It says it will weld up to 1/4 inch stuff.
Most of my welding will be in the 1/8 range.

I got 6013 welding rods 1/16 and 3/32 and 1/8 a pound of each.
It has settings for up to 1/8 rods. (@230v)

The links posted above are all I really know about this welder.

Gonna see about trying it out later this evening or tomorrow.

Pooh Bear

tcb · Jun 29, 2005

you did ok, that was the very first welder i had and learned alot from it and it always did what i asked of it. but, it will not take long for you to want more, ac/dc, and the mig. it is a visious cycle, but a fun one.

tim

Pooh_Bear · Jun 29, 2005

That was the idea. Get something small and low power to learn on.
Then I move up to the bigger units.

I ran out of daylightn this evening.
So I will have to test it tomorrow evening.
I did get all the wiring straightened out.
It is ready to plug in and start welding.

Pooh Bear

davesisk · Jun 29, 2005

I'd say this is good enough to at least get you started stick welding. Even though it's on the low end of power and duty cycle, stick is the welding process that is capable of doing the thickest material with the least power. It's messy though...don't expect nice MIG or TIG looking beads, but you can likely get good (but still ugly) welds with some practice. There shouldn't be any damage from hooking the leads up wrong since it's AC. When you're trying to strike an arc, think of it as striking a match...that's the best analogy I've ever heard, and it's pretty accurate. The duty cycle is really low, so expect to spend lots of time standing there waiting for the machine to cool. Also, make sure you wear safety glasses underneath the auto-darkening hood...here's why: it'll become a habit to raise the hood immediately after you finish a bead...with stick you generally will grab your chipping hammer and chip the slag off so you can run another bead. If you don't have safety glasses on underneath the welding hood, you can get a piece of hot slag in your eye while chipping after you've raised the hood and forgotten to put the safety glasses on. In fact, you don't even have to be chipping it off with the chipping hammer...hot slag will sometimes pop off as it cools. You absolutely do not want to get a piece of hot slag in an eye...develop the habit of wearing those safety glasses all the time from the start! Make sure you wear thick welding gloves as well...welded steel stays hot for a long time. Keep good ventilation since this is a smoke wrench, and beware that you are dealing with high-amperage electricity on a torch that is hot everytime you turn the machine on. (It takes less than 1 amp under the right conditions to cause cardiac arrest...namely, passing through the chest from one hand to the other while there's reduced skin resistance...think perspiration!)

And be sure to show us pictures of your yard-art when you're done! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Good luck,
Dave

Soundguy · Jun 30, 2005

( Also, make sure you wear safety glasses underneath the auto-darkening hood...here's why: it'll become a habit to raise the hood )

I like the hoods with the flip up tinted shield.. with the glass underneath.. that way you aren't flipping the helmet up, but can see to chip.

( but you can likely get good (but still ugly) welds with some practice )

With practice you can get darn nice looking welds with even an ac welder.. I have gotten to the point where I can run 'mig' looking beeds with 6011 rods on my little ac buzzbox. got to have a steady hand.. good joint, and good surface prep.. no wind.. etc.

( There shouldn't be any damage from hooking the leads up wrong since it's AC. )

I was thinking about that last night. Ok.. the ac one is a no brainer if it is just xformer to xformer connections on the ground clamp and torch.

Now.. on a DC machine.. say you are DCEP.. if you hooked up the leads backwards.. wouldn't it effectively be DCEN welding? After all.. it is just current flowing from one electrode to the other. Aside from it making a difference on deposit and rod selection, seems like no damage would be done to the unit. Am I right in this thinking?

Soundguy

davesisk · Jun 30, 2005

(

Now.. on a DC machine.. say you are DCEP.. if you hooked up the leads backwards.. wouldn't it effectively be DCEN welding? After all.. it is just current flowing from one electrode to the other. Aside from it making a difference on deposit and rod selection, seems like no damage would be done to the unit. Am I right in this thinking?

Soundguy )

Absolutely correct. There are some rods that work best with AC, some rods that work best with DCEP, and I believe some rods that also work with DCEN. On my TIG, you use DCEN for TIG, squarewave AC for aluminum or magnesium (set a switch), or use DCEP for stick (switch the cables). I suppose there's no reason you couldn't use AC with stick as well, even though the manual doesn't say anything about it. The welder doesn't care which way the leads are hooked up, but the weldor does (or should!).

Dave

Soundguy · Jun 30, 2005

That's what I thought.. the machine is just passing current from one wire to the other... so shouldn't care about which cable has a clamp and which cable has a torch... the 'difference' is rod selection based on polarity of the torch, and for type of work you are doing ( verticle welds.. etc) .. or material... ( mild steel... alloys.. etc.. hardfacing.. joining or building up.. etc.. )

Soundguy

Highbeam · Jul 1, 2005

DC welders are mucho bucks. It is safe to assume that this is AC only and as such makes no difference which wire you use as a torch or ground. Right?

I wish my AC225 buzzbox was an ac/dc version but you can't argue with free.

Soundguy · Jul 1, 2005

( It is safe to assume that this is AC only and as such makes no difference which wire you use as a torch or ground. Right?
)

That would be my assumption as well.

Soundguy

Pooh_Bear · Jul 2, 2005

It is an AC only welder.

I still haven't tested it out by trying to weld with it.
Been too hot here to get outside. Been busy with other stuff.

I want to test the auto darkening helmet before using.
I got it at Harbor Freight last week for $50.
I went outside yesterday and looked at the sun thru it.
I put my hand over the lense and I could see thru the lense.
I moved my hand and it went dark for half a second, then clear again.
Shouldn't it go dark and stay dark, or is the sun not bright enough.

Maybe I will get to test it all this weekend.

Pooh Bear

cleatus · Jul 2, 2005

Pooh, if itwent dark it's working right. I have a HF auto hood and like it . When you start to test weld use the smallist rod you have on 1/8 inch our thinner metal. If rod sticks turn amps up and try again.