Shield Arc
Super Member
No I haven't.
welders welders welders
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lilranch2001
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Sodo
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lilranch TIG is so much more civilized than stick-welding! Being faced with dirty ol' cracks all the time can bring out the 'wurst in a weldor that's for sure.
A friend of mine said he's had duty-cycle limitations when aluminum welding, never had it with steel. Jim those are pretty big projects you have there, substantially bigger than what turns up on this forum.
So, are you really saying that stopping after 2 minutes, then the 10 minute cooldown, (of a 20% machine) would cause undue hardship that is worth a few hundreds of $$? Or thousand $$$? I watch the projects that come across this forum, there's one in a hundred where it's even possible to hit a duty cycle. Once. A ten minute cooldown once every 5 years. Not a big deal (to me) but my standards may be lower.
You guys don't have to get your feathers ruffled. If the fellers buying new welders can afford bigger duty cycles, they will be fine. And those with 20% duty-cycles are doing fine too. So it's all good!
A friend of mine said he's had duty-cycle limitations when aluminum welding, never had it with steel. Jim those are pretty big projects you have there, substantially bigger than what turns up on this forum.
So, are you really saying that stopping after 2 minutes, then the 10 minute cooldown, (of a 20% machine) would cause undue hardship that is worth a few hundreds of $$? Or thousand $$$? I watch the projects that come across this forum, there's one in a hundred where it's even possible to hit a duty cycle. Once. A ten minute cooldown once every 5 years. Not a big deal (to me) but my standards may be lower.
You guys don't have to get your feathers ruffled. If the fellers buying new welders can afford bigger duty cycles, they will be fine. And those with 20% duty-cycles are doing fine too. So it's all good!
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Jim Timber
Veteran Member
Those two parts are part of the same piece of equipment - my stump grinder. Had I been faced with an overheated welder, it would've really ticked me off, and it would've meant I was delayed in completing the project, which would've potentially meant I was burning off useable days of season to work. Since I'm self employed, that's not as mission critical (grinder was for personal use last year, but will be contracted for removals this year), but time is still money.
Do you spend your weekend working on your project or with your thumb up your rear waiting for your welder to cool off? Is not having to wait for it to get back to doing your project worth a 1 time payment of XXX? more than the cheaper hobbyist grade machine? To me it always was, and now that I use them for my business it's paid dividends of being profitable vs not being profitable when I look at the time it takes to complete some given task. My Invision was $3300 with a XR Control and 30A Push-pull MIG feeder and gun. That current set up is something like $8K new now (mine was used). I then spent another $125 on a brand new (old stock) Airco feeder for use with steel wire, and another $30 on a bunch of euro connector MIG guns off CL, then I sold a couple of those and ended up ahead a little bit, but needed another flowmeter for the steel side and spent my proceeds. Having pulsed MIG I've never used is kind of ironic since I'm a tech junkie, but the machine is so sweet on short arc I've never bothered to use it with pulsed.
I'll never suggest anyone "needs" an industrial welder like I have. If they really do need one, they'll know it. When I got the push-pull gun, I had anticipated using it for work I'm not doing and ended up getting out of. Instead of selling it off, I kept it with the realization it might become useful in the future dealing with boat docks up at the cabin - well, fast-forward 8 years and we now own acreage across the street from my in-laws cabin and are working towards moving up there. I'm glad I have it and it remains a good investment.
I have no ruffled feathers, but I do have a long history of a hobbyist who's hit the thermal limit on every welder I've touched that didn't have a 60% duty cycle in the range I was using it. But as you've said, I'm nobody and my opinion doesn't matter. As I get older with more space, my projects just keep getting bigger. I've already upgraded through the 120v to 250A, and now have 400A MIG, but my TIG went from hobbyist 160A with 12% duty cycle to a smaller industrial capable of 325A (rated at 60% at 250A) within a year. Would I have been better served to get the big one first? Since I did well on buying the smaller TIG, no, I made a couple hundred when I sold it. I lost that couple hundred when I sold my MIG's. That's where I'm coming from when I suggest to buy enough machine. Pay once, cry once, and move forward being happy when you strike an arc. My current fleet (Hobart excluded) is a joy to use. Probably not financially viable for some folks to justify, but I'd rather have a hotrod welder than a nicer truck - and that's how I've rolled the last 10 years.
YMMV - I'm not the typical hobbyist.
Do you spend your weekend working on your project or with your thumb up your rear waiting for your welder to cool off? Is not having to wait for it to get back to doing your project worth a 1 time payment of XXX? more than the cheaper hobbyist grade machine? To me it always was, and now that I use them for my business it's paid dividends of being profitable vs not being profitable when I look at the time it takes to complete some given task. My Invision was $3300 with a XR Control and 30A Push-pull MIG feeder and gun. That current set up is something like $8K new now (mine was used). I then spent another $125 on a brand new (old stock) Airco feeder for use with steel wire, and another $30 on a bunch of euro connector MIG guns off CL, then I sold a couple of those and ended up ahead a little bit, but needed another flowmeter for the steel side and spent my proceeds. Having pulsed MIG I've never used is kind of ironic since I'm a tech junkie, but the machine is so sweet on short arc I've never bothered to use it with pulsed.
I'll never suggest anyone "needs" an industrial welder like I have. If they really do need one, they'll know it. When I got the push-pull gun, I had anticipated using it for work I'm not doing and ended up getting out of. Instead of selling it off, I kept it with the realization it might become useful in the future dealing with boat docks up at the cabin - well, fast-forward 8 years and we now own acreage across the street from my in-laws cabin and are working towards moving up there. I'm glad I have it and it remains a good investment.
I have no ruffled feathers, but I do have a long history of a hobbyist who's hit the thermal limit on every welder I've touched that didn't have a 60% duty cycle in the range I was using it. But as you've said, I'm nobody and my opinion doesn't matter. As I get older with more space, my projects just keep getting bigger. I've already upgraded through the 120v to 250A, and now have 400A
MIG, but my TIG went from hobbyist 160A with 12% duty cycle to a smaller industrial capable of 325A (rated at 60% at 250A) within a year. Would I have been better served to get the big one first? Since I did well on buying the smaller TIG, no, I made a couple hundred when I sold it. I lost that couple hundred when I sold my MIG's. That's where I'm coming from when I suggest to buy enough machine. Pay once, cry once, and move forward being happy when you strike an arc. My current fleet (Hobart excluded) is a joy to use. Probably not financially viable for some folks to justify, but I'd rather have a hotrod welder than a nicer truck - and that's how I've rolled the last 10 years.YMMV - I'm not the typical hobbyist.
Silvic
Gold Member
YMMV - I'm not the typical hobbyist.
Maybe so but you certainly appear to have an ability to use your head and think. A skill that is lacking in many these days. I have a suspicion that you are not as atypical as you might think. A lot of folks view things in a very similar fashion. Great post by the way.
Sodo
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YMMV - I'm not the typical hobbyist.
Yeah you're actually making stuff & posting it. That's really good for the forum!
Jim Timber
Veteran Member
I made a decision when I upgraded from the little welders that I wanted the ability to weld 1/2" material in one pass. I figured that's as big as I was ever going to "need", then sought out machines capable of doing the job. When the deal on the invision came up, I decided it was worth dumping a couple more grand into because I was getting a power supply that'd do more, and the push-pull set up above an even swap on the power supply. I ended up selling my traditional "MIG" welder for very close to what I'd paid for it 3 years earlier. Welders have proven to be a stable commodity over the years as long as they're of known quality and you're not asking the moon for them. Money is made or lost when you buy it (just like with land). Pay too much on acquisition and you'll never recoup that, but if you buy it right you can sell it later and make out ok. Then if you make some stuff to sell with them while owning it, they pay their own rent.
So I do see where people are coming from when they look at it as a purely financial decision: "This sucker is going to bleed me dry". But I'm in it for the long haul and I don't think of the dollars parked in the machine as an expense so much as an investment in my capacity. If I ever decide it's time to hang it all up, I can probably cash out and do ok.
So I do see where people are coming from when they look at it as a purely financial decision: "This sucker is going to bleed me dry". But I'm in it for the long haul and I don't think of the dollars parked in the machine as an expense so much as an investment in my capacity. If I ever decide it's time to hang it all up, I can probably cash out and do ok.
