Welding On A New Tractor

[Farwell]

Oxygen and oil don't mix to well, they have a serious fire potential even without a flame.

 

[MJPetersen]

O&A welding involves steel not brass. Brass/Bronze (alloy) is used in brazing. And no it does not mix with the steel--it does stick to it VERY well, but it is not nearly as strong. It is great for repairing pinholes in hyd tubing or wear though spots. It can be use to fill a scratch in a hyd cyl rod. It melts at a much lower temp than steel, but it does have its uses.

O&A welding involves a steel filler rod and a suitable sized torch for the job. The speed and ease factor disappear when welding anything ticker than tubing or sheet. It has its uses, but I imagine with MIG and TIG it will eventually fade away. But there is little more beautiful than a well done tube cluster of 4130 crome-moly tubing welded with O&A.

Alan is right about the problems of welding with O&A on thicker materials. It really is not practical. One additional thing would be that it would be significantly slower also.

Mike

 

[2manyrocks]

I stand corrected. Thank you all.

 

[sandman2234]

2manyrocks,
Your not wrong in it being possible, so don't go apologizing for thinking it wouldn't work. Due to the other viable options, it may not be the fastest but probably just as good as any other with the proper experience and in the right hands. The temperature of gas welding is very close to the temp of arc welding, and the steel is the same, so the results can be the same with practice.
As far as oxygen mixing with petroleum products, it becomes explosive I believe, not flamable. This is not while the oxygen is being burned, only in a gaseous state of contact. So if the flame is burning, subjecting it to oil will just cause the oil to burn faster, as the oxygen is an accelerant.
Never mix petroleum products with oxygen or it's piping/fittings.
GTAW (tig) is one of the processes that is replacing gas welding. Coupled with a high frequency box, it will allow you to weld aluminum and that I know will harm onboard electronics even with the battery disconnected. I had a pinhole in a fuel tank and they hit it with a tig torch with hi freq. The truck refused to start again, and a bad brainbox was determined to be the cause. The truck was driven into the shop to fix a fuel leak, but wouldn't drive back out.
David from jax

 

[AlanB]

Good point on the HF with the Tig Sandman, I was not thinking along the lines of Tig in the discussion but it is used somewhat, and the very reason that the HF is superimposed over the welding current is to get the arc to jump without physical contact of the tungsten.

You can really feel it when you are hot and sweaty and become part of the circuit as well

 

[sandman2234]

That electricity seems to bite some people more than others. I have a friend who comes over to weld quite often, and he is really prone to getting shocked. I can see it in his face when it happens, and it happens to him alot more than it ever happens to me. I have wondered if it is his shoes, or the level that he sweats, or maybe the nicotine in his system. Never have figured that one out, because I can weld standing on wet ground and it not bother me, but he lights up like a Christmas tree if he tries.
David from jax

 

[Soundguy]

I agree with the others.. first choice is to drop the bucket.. past that.. disconnect both bat cables.. etc.. and have your ground clamp as close to the work as possible.

soundguy

 

[dfkrug]

I am with RobJ on this one. I have been welding on cars and
tractors with electronics for many years, without any problems.
I do not disconnect the battery or computer(s), but I only use
DC welding (mostly MIG). No hi-freq TIG, and not even AC 60Hz. The
HF in TIG welding can induce currents in the frame that can damage
semiconductors. (Sandman has got that right.)

I wonder if there are actually any well-documented cases of
damaging a PCU after DC welding on a car.....

 

[MJPetersen]

Never have figured that one out, because I can weld standing on wet ground and it not bother me, but he lights up like a Christmas tree if he tries.

I may be like your friend. I have welded in the rain and if I hold the stinger in the left had everytime the slag hammer hit the weld I get a good jolt. I try to get my helper to hold it if I need to hammer on the weld.

Mike

 

[jimmer2880]

Slightly off topic... but, I have welded while standing in 4" of water. Not the smartest move, but it had to get done.

The times when I get "tickled", are when my gloves are wet. Typically, the thicker the gloves, the longer it takes before I start to get that tingling feeling.

 

[RobJ]

O&A welding involves steel not brass. Brass/Bronze (alloy) is used in brazing. And no it does not mix with the steel--it does stick to it VERY well, but it is not nearly as strong. It is great for repairing pinholes in hyd tubing or wear though spots. It can be use to fill a scratch in a hyd cyl rod. It melts at a much lower temp than steel, but it does have its uses.

Ahhhh, closest we ever came to steel was using a coathanger on some small stuff.

 

[DonT-B7500]

Unhooking a battery on a vehicle when welding will only protect the battery, all other electronics are still connected to the tractor, it may even be worse than leaving the battery hooked up as the battery may act as a capacitor to absorb any spikes

 

[AlanB]

One of the projects I do regularly too keep my hands in practice is too Silicone Bronze torque converter vanes for a performance shop.

In the summer months, when hot and sweaty, and I get my wrist down on the steel table, then accidently draw the arc across the filler rod instead of the peice I am welding.............. Yeah, hi freq hurts

 

[ccsial]

That electricity seems to bite some people more than others.

I know one thing that it depends on is how dry your skin is. I have very dry skin these days. I can't even operate one of the old capacitive touch screens unless I lick my finger.

 

[jimmer2880]

Help me understand how unhooking the battery doesn't HELP to protect the components.

My theory (which, must be incorrect by the qty of people saying it doesn't work), is that in order for damage to occur, there must be a circuit. So, the positive & negative sides must both be connected. Kind of like how a bird can sit on a bare 10,000 volt high tension power line without getting fried. When you disconnect the battery, there is no longer a circuit (in my mind anyway).

However, of course, most items ground to the frame, so you'd have to break that connection before being completely isolated. But, how can sending positive juice through the frame make a circuit complete?

 

[dbdartman]

Jimmer, as Sandman pointed out, it's the high frequency spike to start the arc that will cause trouble with electronics, not current flow. In my case, I was typically Tig welding on race cars, so the electronics needed protection from the hi-freq spike used to start the arc & keep the electrode (a sharpened expensive piece of tungsten) from contamination due to touching the base metal.

Bottom line is: If you're using Mig or stick (where the electrode is actually contacting the base metal to start the arc) you are extremely unlikely to have any trouble. Place the ground clamp directly on the piece being welded & your chance of hurting anything becomes even more remote.

Think about this: Muffler shops replace how many thousands of exhaust systems daily. Most every system requires at least SOME welding. They clamp the ground directly on the pipe without isolating the electronics in any way. They typically use a Mig, but I've seen some gas weld (Tig would be too slow!). The cars always start right up. Besides, if this was a problem, there would be warnings somewhere on the car advising against welding without following the electronics isolating procedures, & muffler shops would practice "safe welding" rolleyes to keep the lawyers at bay.

 

[dfkrug]

Muffler shops replace how many thousands of exhaust systems daily. Most every system requires at least SOME welding. They clamp the ground directly on the pipe without isolating the electronics in any way. They typically use a Mig.....

That's a great real-world example.

For an example of how hi-freq can induce currents in unconnected bits
of metal, put some chunks of foil in your microwave.

DC arc welding is low voltage (30VDC) and high current (100+ A) and is
safe when properly used.

 

[RobJ]

Think about this: Muffler shops replace how many thousands of exhaust systems daily. Most every system requires at least SOME welding. They clamp the ground directly on the pipe without isolating the electronics in any way. They typically use a Mig, but I've seen some gas weld (Tig would be too slow!). The cars always start right up. Besides, if this was a problem, there would be warnings somewhere on the car advising against welding without following the electronics isolating procedures, & muffler shops would practice "safe welding" rolleyes to keep the lawyers at bay.

Really man, STOP making real world sense, it kills all the science in it. Like I said, I've never heard of a problem and so far no one has posted one. I'd be more worried about sun spots!

 

[BTDT]

So, have you got your mods done yet, it's been almost a week?

 

[Soundguy]

Unhooking a battery on a vehicle when welding will only protect the battery, all other electronics are still connected to the tractor, it may even be worse than leaving the battery hooked up as the battery may act as a capacitor to absorb any spikes

Some MOS devices may not agree with you.

Soundguy