Welding/Tractor=Question

[KEROSENEDRVR]

Is there any reason to be concerned about welding hooks on a loader bucket without first disconnecting the tractor's 12v battery? I'm not sure if the electrical system could be damaged...

 

[Soundguy]

Is there any reason to be concerned about welding hooks on a loader bucket without first disconnecting the tractor's 12v battery? I'm not sure if the electrical system could be damaged...

Technically, you shouldn't have a problem. For the most part.. electrons are lazy.. they like to take the past of least resistance.. thus your electrode and ground clamp will be swapping electrons... just make it easy for them to do so and you will be ahead of the game.... locate your ground as near the work as possible, and do clean/grind the area the where ground clamp goes.. make sure to not have a bearing or bushing/pivot between work and ground clamp.

For safety, i like to pull the wires / plugs off my alternator, but I've never disconnected a battery. i welded in a new floor to my loader bucket just this past week.. left battery hooke dup entire time.. just pulled wire to alt.. Afterwards i reinstalled wire. She started up fine and charged yesterday so i take that as a good sign.

Soundguy

 

[3RRL]

Is there any reason to be concerned about welding hooks on a loader bucket without first disconnecting the tractor's 12v battery? I'm not sure if the electrical system could be damaged...

I prefer to disconnect the battery cables just to avoid a problem of some kind. That is when I remember to do it. But I'm not sure exactly WHAT problems could occur. On the other hand, I have welded MANY times without disconnecting (when I forgot to disconnect) and I have not had any problems either way. Soundguy gives good information about making sure your welder ground is as close to your weld as possible, on a clean bare metal surface.

 

[weldingisfun]

There is always the possibility of damage to an electrical component. Take the extra five or ten minutes and disconnect. Do a time/cost analysis: The value of your ten minutes as compared to the out of pocket expense of replacing an electrical component. Only you know how much you can afford.

 

[john_bud]

Is there any reason to be concerned about welding hooks on a loader bucket without first disconnecting the tractor's 12v battery? I'm not sure if the electrical system could be damaged...

It depends on the tractor. An old tractor like Soundguys, would have no problem. The alt is the only risk and that is dern slight.

If you have a new tractor with the fancy pants computer controlled everything, then I would pull the battery connections. Those you can blow from spikes, still not likely but an expensive learning experience.

jb

 

[AndyMA]

My dealer fixed a crack in my backhoe bucket without disconnecting the battery on my TN75D and he had to replace my tractor's computer. On New Holland TN's, the manual says to disconnect the battery for all welding.

Andy

 

[Bird]

I think you should disconnect the battery to be safe, and if I ever do it again, I think I will, but I welded brackets onto the bucket on my B2710 front end loader without disconnnecting the battery and did no damage. While I think the chance of damage is small, I just wasn't thinking or I'd have disconnected mine.

 

[DieselPower]

Is there any reason to be concerned? Yes. Anytime you weld on something you should disconnect the battery. I have seen alot of ECM's, radio's and other electrical components destroyed over the years because someone didn't disconnect the battery's. I have even seen people weld on the back of a tractor trailer's trailer and had it fry the ECM on the truck that was 90 feet away from what they were welding. It's alway's safer to just unhook them and be done with it. It may save you from a uneeded expensive repair.

 

[slowrev]

Never hook the Ground clamp on the other side of a bushing or bearing from where you are welding. It might appear to do no damage but it will burn spots on the bearings and cause them to fail early if nothing else.

Don't weld where the current could go thru the braid of a hydraulic hose.

Just an additonal tip or two.

 

[AlanB]

OK folks I will bite in here.

If you want to protect an electrical component, you unplug that component. I am not buying into that if you disconnect the battery, your computer will be safe. Your battery will be safe, all other components are still "in the loop, for stray voltages.

Welding wipes out electircal components by sending electricity through places that was not intended, or in amounts not intended. Good clean grounds, close to your work, with straight metal between the two points, will do more to prevent this then anything else in my opinion.

Also, if you are Tigging with HF then there are all sorts of interesting things that have the potential to happen.

 

[DieselPower]

OK folks I will bite in here.

If you want to protect an electrical component, you unplug that component. I am not buying into that if you disconnect the battery, your computer will be safe. Your battery will be safe, all other components are still "in the loop, for stray voltages.

Welding wipes out electircal components by sending electricity through places that was not intended, or in amounts not intended. Good clean grounds, close to your work, with straight metal between the two points, will do more to prevent this then anything else in my opinion.

Also, if you are Tigging with HF then there are all sorts of interesting things that have the potential to happen.

I would have to strongly disagree. I have spoken with alot of professional welders and auto/truck engineers over the years and all have told me all you need to do is disconnect the battery.

Think about it, if you disconnect the negative terminal you have opened the "loop" in the electrical system. This is basic electronics 101 stuff here. There is no possible way on earth that electricity can pass "through" the component if it's not in a closed loop. I have seen lot's of heavy truck ECM's and brake ECM's fried over the years because someone "did not" disconnect the battery. I have never seen or for that matter ever heard of any electrical component being damaged as long as the battery was disconnected. Open the circuit and it's physically impossible for the electrons to flow through a component if they have nowhere to go.

 

[390GT]

Remove loader from tractor. Place ground clamp close to work area. Make sure there are no bearings or pivot points between the weld area and the ground clamp. Weld all you need.

 

[Soundguy]

I guess technically you could have induction voltages.. but again.. disconnection a componet out of loop is a sure bet in most cases.

I like to lift the positive cable... leaving things grounded usually makes them happy. that's why you almost never see a 'switch' in a ground.. only in the 'hot'..

When i welde dthe bucket in my loader on my old ford 850, I simply unscrewed the charge wire from the alt, pulled the 2 pin plug, and pulled the hot cable... Pretty much all i've ever done on my tractors. on the ones with a genny.. i just pull the 'hot' cable on the battery.. as on my ford 5000 when i welded up the op platform.

As was said.. having a good clean ground, as close tot he welded area as possible is the first / best thing you can do... and if there are any doubts past that.. just pull a wire and then don't worry..


Soundguy

I would have to strongly disagree. I have spoken with alot of professional welders and auto/truck engineers over the years and all have told me all you need to do is disconnect the battery.

Think about it, if you disconnect the negative terminal you have opened the "loop" in the electrical system. This is basic electronics 101 stuff here. There is no possible way on earth that electricity can pass "through" the component if it's not in a closed loop. I have seen lot's of heavy truck ECM's and brake ECM's fried over the years because someone "did not" disconnect the battery. I have never seen or for that matter ever heard of any electrical component being damaged as long as the battery was disconnected. Open the circuit and it's physically impossible for the electrons to flow through a component if they have nowhere to go.

 

[AlanB]

I would have to strongly disagree. I have spoken with alot of professional welders and auto/truck engineers over the years and all have told me all you need to do is disconnect the battery.

Think about it, if you disconnect the negative terminal you have opened the "loop" in the electrical system. This is basic electronics 101 stuff here. There is no possible way on earth that electricity can pass "through" the component if it's not in a closed loop. I have seen lot's of heavy truck ECM's and brake ECM's fried over the years because someone "did not" disconnect the battery. I have never seen or for that matter ever heard of any electrical component being damaged as long as the battery was disconnected. Open the circuit and it's physically impossible for the electrons to flow through a component if they have nowhere to go.

You have opened the "loop" in the normal electrical sequence.

As far as electronics 101, ESD etc will still fry out sensitive electronic components (like ECM's) sitting on a bench with no wires connected to anything.

Or, if you want to take it a step further, take an ECM out and bolt a piece of metal to it. Now clamp your ground to the opposite side of the ECM, now strike an arc on the steel bar.

By definition when welding you are not using the Normal sequence, the welding voltage is going through somewhere not intended. Those components are still VERY likely electrically connected to the piece you are welding, weather through mount bolts, or seperate ground straps etc. it is still on an potentially energized part.

I am not saying that it is a BAD idea to disconnect the battery or whatever you feel is important, what I am saying is that just disconnecting a battery, will not garuantee that you will not Zap an electrical component.

I would put too you that the guys doing the welding that took the time to disconnect the battery, also placed their ground clamp on a clean well prepped area near too where they were welding and followed good practice, They were aware of the possible consequences and did not have a problem.

And added on edit, I should have wrote in my original post, that you should Remove (not unplug) the component if you are very concerned about it.

Each level of doing something adds a level of protection, and each welder, repair person has to determine what level they are comfortable with.

I myself generally just weld with a well placed ground when doing Stick or Mig, when the Plasma or the Tig come out, lots more precautions start to come into play as the HF used can wreak havoc on electrical components. I prefer to get the piece out to the point where I am not electrically tied to anything.

 

[slowrev]

I would have to strongly disagree. I have spoken with alot of professional welders and auto/truck engineers over the years and all have told me all you need to do is disconnect the battery.

Think about it, if you disconnect the negative terminal you have opened the "loop" in the electrical system. This is basic electronics 101 stuff here. There is no possible way on earth that electricity can pass "through" the component if it's not in a closed loop. I have seen lot's of heavy truck ECM's and brake ECM's fried over the years because someone "did not" disconnect the battery. I have never seen or for that matter ever heard of any electrical component being damaged as long as the battery was disconnected. Open the circuit and it's physically impossible for the electrons to flow through a component if they have nowhere to go.

Umm Induction, / static, I was almost killed one time splicing oopenended telephone cable that picked up inductive voltage from the power line above it.

Better to remove the positive cable and connect it to ground.
Everything at the same potential = no inductive/static buildup.