Welding Up?

[Jay4200]

I found a split on the bottom of my FEL bucket which needed a weld repair. The best I could do was to get the bottom of the bucket just past vertical, so I had to weld onto a vertical surface. I got it stuck together, but it's REALLY ugly.

I was using an AC stick welder and have 7014 and 6013 rods at my disposal - no clue which rod is for what (as many times as I learn the numbering code, I always immediately forget)... I was using 7014 rods yesterday.

Can someone describe the technique for welding up?

Thanks - JayC

 

[RobJ]

7014 are better the welding you are doing. I seem to have better luck going up instead of down. Either way just get good penitration and who cares what it looks like. That's what grinders are for in welding.

 

[BTDT]

I guess you could take the bucket off and turn it over so your welding level. Seems easy enough, especially if you have the QA type setup.

 

[kevinj]

I found a split on the bottom of my FEL bucket which needed a weld repair. The best I could do was to get the bottom of the bucket just past vertical, so I had to weld onto a vertical surface. I got it stuck together, but it's REALLY ugly.

I was using an AC stick welder and have 7014 and 6013 rods at my disposal - no clue which rod is for what (as many times as I learn the numbering code, I always immediately forget)... I was using 7014 rods yesterday.

Can someone describe the technique for welding up?

Thanks - JayC

6011 is one rod for AC out of position work

 

[BobG_in_VA]

6011 is one rod for AC out of position work

It WILL penetrate probably better than any other rod....who cares what it looks like...take a 3/8" piece of plate steel and weld it over the fissure...then don't look back...keep on going...BobG in VA

 

[john_bud]

Don't even try and mess around with it in an akward position if you aren't a skilled welder. I'm a decent backyard welder and it is best to take the 10 min to get the bucket off the tractor and weld it straight down. Get a grinder and make a good groove. Then use an Ox/Ac torch to heat the edge up to 400F and use NEW 7018 rod. Give the weld area a good post heat so it cools slow. The heating will help you avoid issues if the edge is carbon steel. It probably isn't, but it will still weld better when heated up.

jb

 

[sandman2234]

7014 rod is one of my favorites, but it is for flat welding only. If the metal is completely clean, the rods are dry, etc, then it will make welds that make you look like a professional. But if anything is out of place, they do not do a good job. For horizontal welding on clean metal, I will grab them everytime, but for out of position welding, (sounds like you are doing overhead?) then the rod you need is 6011. 7018 would also work well but requires a little more practice to run them right.
I would remove the bucket, grind off the weld you just added, clean out the crack and use 7018 if you have a DC machine, or 6011 on AC.
David from jax

 

[GaryE]

I have found the best "AC" rod to weld out of position is the 7018 AC rod. Yes they do make a 7018 AC rod. I have found it seems to work best welding down a vertical weld with this rod.



Hope this is of some help,



Gary

 

[Ifixcars]

Of the 2 rods you have I would use the 6013 for Vert up. It freezes faster than the 7014, which is used better for flat welding. It's not as deep penetrating as 6011 or 6010 but it does make a nice bead, very nice. You might as well try it unless you want to buy more rods. Use a little weaving motion with your rod angled slightly up, and build little "shelves" for the molten metal to sit on as you move up. Also, for the 6013 rod, keep the arc very very short, contacting the puddle at the leading edge.

 

[3RRL]

I use 6011 or 7018AC rod. Seems to work best for OP welding for me.
Also, weave the rod as has been said. The slight sideways movement allows a millisecond of extra cooling so as not to drool the puddle. Use minimum amperage ... only as many amps as needed to strike the arc and get good penetration. I got some 7018AC rod at Home depot, if you're wondering. But make sure it's AC for your AC machine.

Of those two, I prefer 6011 for the root pass and then 7018AC if required.
I also prefer to weld downhill as I find it easier to control the bead, and it doesn't seem to "glob up" as much as going uphill. But you can go either up or down.

 

[gemini5362]

I found a split on the bottom of my FEL bucket which needed a weld repair. The best I could do was to get the bottom of the bucket just past vertical, so I had to weld onto a vertical surface. I got it stuck together, but it's REALLY ugly.

I was using an AC stick welder and have 7014 and 6013 rods at my disposal - no clue which rod is for what (as many times as I learn the numbering code, I always immediately forget)... I was using 7014 rods yesterday.

Can someone describe the technique for welding up?

Thanks - JayC

Maybe I am not understanding what you are doing. Could you not weld the inside of the bucket and then grind that down smooth ?

 

[Jay4200]

Maybe I am not understanding what you are doing. Could you not weld the inside of the bucket and then grind that down smooth ?

No - I have a Kubota HD bucket, which has dual-layer construction. The inner bucket is curved, while the outer is squared-off. A previous owner evidently spent a lot of time plowing snow off of an asphalt driveway. The bucket's cutting edge has significant wear, and the bottom of the bucket has some wear, particularly in the rearmost corners. The metal just began to wear through on one side, so there was a small hole into the cavity between the inner and outer bucket pieces.

Taking off the bucket is not an easy task, so curling it all the way down and putting it on the ground was the best I could do. I did get the gaps welded up, but had quite a bit of problems with burning through and having my puddle let go and drip down. I've heard about the "building a shelf" technique, carrying the puddle on top of the growing shelf to weld up, and I did try to do that, but I've never been able to do that and get a nice looking result. Sometimes it looks like I'm getting the weld to start running OK, but any 'shelf' invaribly vaporizes and a get a big glob that runs down. I ran as low as I could and still maintain a decent arc (60A). Maybe I should've used my coil welder instead? I don't think penetration is an issue - the metal is pretty thin. At any rate, I was hoping there was a specific welding technique someone could describe in detail that I could try next time.

JayC

 

[RobJ]

Yes they do make a 7018 AC rod.

Gary

Sometimes they are hard to find...the ones I have have AC printed on the stick. They work 100 times better than the standard ones which put out a funny smell, color and were hard to restrike.

Funny talk about rods, seems everyone have a different favorite for the job.

 

[GaryE]

At any rate, I was hoping there was a specific welding technique someone could describe in detail that I could try next time.

JayC

JayC ,


If you were not so far in the "deep south" I would drive down and give you a demo! Since you are going to use an AC welder, I would recommend you try a 7018 AC rod. Up here they are easy to find. Most welding supply places carry them.


I would start the rod at about 130 amps. Start from the top of the weld and hold the rod 45 degrees up from horizontal. Using a left to right weave, work your way down the weld. Don't try to out run the puddle, most of what you will see is the slag dripping down. After a few practice passes you will see the difference between the actual puddle and the slag.


On the first pass keep the weave to a minimum and increase the weave on each consecutive pass.


I hope this is of some help.... I find putting welding techniques into words can be some what of a challenge(at least for me). If you can find a local welding instructor it would be well worth the time spent for a quick "demo"


Good luck,


Gary

 

[GaryE]

Funny talk about rods, seems everyone have a different favorite for the job.

I know what you mean....Kinda like arguing what color tractor is best! And we ALL know the answer to that, don't we!!!!!

 

[patrick_g]

No one mentioned it but I think if I recall way back when I learned about this stuff that the 7000 series is roughly 7000 lbs tensile strength and the 6000 series is 6000 lbs.

That is less important than some of the other advice you got. Get the bucket off so you can weld "DOWN HAND" rotating the workpiece so the small segment you are welding is horizontal. Do grove it out before trying to weld it and in general grind the area to be welded clean. If you use multiple passes then chip and clean or grind between passes. Placing a piece of metal over the "wound" on the back side away from dirt contact is also a good suggestion as was the pre and post heat to make it weld easier (not mandatory) avoid crystallization (if you don't post heat at least don't put water on the weld to cool it as it can make the weld brittle.)

Welding a vertical bead is way harder that horizontal and up hand or over head (upside down) is harder yet but neither is required if you will just remove and rotate the bucket to keep the area you are currently welding horizontal.

If you do put a piece of patch material over the wound it should be about the thickness of the material you are fixing and should extend a ways beyond the immediate area of the crack.

Good luck to you,

Pat

 

[3RRL]

Patrick,
I think you left off one zero from those tensile strengths you posted.

 

[patrick_g]

Patrick,
I think you left off one zero from those tensile strengths you posted.

3RRL, thanks for catching that. It darn sure makes a difference. It does make a difference.

I should have said that the
6000 and 7000 series electrodes have

60,000 and 70,000 lbs tensile strength but that the difference in strength was less of a selection factor than their other characteristics.

Thanks again, 3RRL, for having sharp eyes and a clear head.

Pat

 

[ericjeeper]

new choices in welding rod technology now days.. can get 10018 Thats some strong rod.

 

[patrick_g]

new choices in welding rod technology now days.. can get 10018 Thats some strong rod.

Eric, Apparently science marches on...

I don't know what I would use that for, probably wouldn't. I know there is a hard surfacing rod that is used to build up the wear surfaces like in rock crushers and blades that hit rocks and such but I don't know what the tensile is on that stuff. It is very hard though.

If you arbitrarily use a high tensile strength rod to repair or fabricate mild steel assemblies then the welds will have different characteristics from the structural material which promotes cracking. The substrate flexes more than the weld metal and that promotes little stress cracks that grow and cause things to fail. The weld will look good but it will separate from the base metal.

Ideally the rod composition will be close to that of the substrate and will essentially be a seamless connection.

Pat