Welding

[RocketJSquirrel]

I took a welding class last fall and did real well at stick welding. We were using Miller DC welders. Mostly 7018 and 6010 (or was it 6011?) electrodes. All of the "jobs" were on 1/4" or thicker steel. I did not get to try MIG/wirefeed.

Now I'm looking to weld some hooks on my light materials bucket on my little JD 755. I haven't measured the bucket wall thickness but it probably isn't even 1/8". Here's what I have available. First, I have (access to) an AC welder, 220 volts, more than big enough. Second, I have access to a basic wire-feed welder. I'm not sure if it uses gas shielding or not. It's my dad's, and he can show me how to use it.

What would you use and why? If you would use stick welding, which electrode size and material would you use? I'm seeing that a lot of this general purpose welding I could do around here involves thicknesses less than 1/4", so I'm wondering if I'll just make a mess with stick welding.

The hooks I bought are cadmium plated. Yuck.

 

[RoyJackson]

It's been a looooong time since I welded...but here ya go:

This applies to stick welding only!

First, if you have an oxy-acetylene rig, have that handy.

Locate the hooks where you want them.
If possible to clamp them in position, do that.
If not possible, hold them in position (one at a time, of course) and tack weld two or three places.

Concentrate the heat on the hook(s). They're thicker and willl take more time to go molten.

Now, if you've got them in position (clamped or tacked) and are completely satisfied where they are...get your oxy-acetylene torch ready. If you have a rosebud tip (designed for heating an area, not welding), pre-heat the hooks. You'll want more heat on the hooks (again, they're thicker and will take longer to become molten then the sheet metal of the bucket).
Once the hook is hot (a dull cherry red...not more then that) turn the oxy-actetylene torch off and set aside.

Time to weld....
Again, initially concentrate on the hook. Once the hook starts to puddle, start puddling the bucket sheet metal and run your bead.

If the bucket sheet metal is an eighth of an inch, that's the size rod I'd use, no thicker. I don't recall all the rod specs, but your welding supply store can help you here.

Personally, I'm better at MIG and TIG then stick. MIG or TIG requires a bit more prep work as the rod or wire isn't normally coated as a stick weld rod is. I can control the bead better and I get better penetration.

 

[JonLeonard]

I too took welding lessons at a local vo-tech center. Helped me quite a bit, and I would suggest it to anyone that might need to learn how.

We also used 1/8"+ material with the majority being 1/4". We did however use smaller stuff from time to time as well. I personally would use a smaller electrode than 1/8" to start, because it is very easy to burn holes in thinner material when attaching it to thicker. Make sure the rod is pointing mostly at the hook, it needs to take most of the heat. Preheating the hook is an excellent idea, as already posted. I would make the first pass with a 6010 electrode, it burns hot and will remove any remaining paint, grease, etc from the area. Then go back with a couple of passes with 7018 to make it look pretty /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

I am no certified welder to be sure, but an amatuer, so maybe someone can chime in as to the validity of my method. It has worked for me in the past, but it could have just been dumb luck /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Jon

 

[EdKing]

I used a wire welder to attach the hooks to my bucket. I am currently looking into a "stick welder" for welding heavier material, but for thinner material (less than 1/4") you can't beat the wire welder. I have used it to spot weld body metal while repairing my wife's cousin's Samurai, did a very nice, clean job. I have welded larger than 1/4" steel, but it requires multiple passes and a faster wire speed. If you can weld with a stick welder, you should find the wire welder very easy to use.

 

[gerard]

You can use either one and I wouldn't worry too much about the strength. If you weld all around the hook you'll bend the bucket or run out of lift capacity WAY before you pull a hook loose! Don't use 6011 which is a high penetration rod and isn't needed on 1/8 inch material. 6010 would be a good stick for a first pass and, as mentioned if you want a nice looking finish bead use either the 7018 or 7014 but make sure the surface is bare metal for both of those rods. I'd hit the area lightly with a grinder and remove the paint instead of burning through with the rod. pre heating the hook isn't a bad idea at all. Don't know about the cadmium coating. I know if it's galvanized you have to remove the galvanization - gives off toxic fumes when welded. Also make sure to put the work clamp close to the weld area so the current doesn't pass through and close fit bearings etc.

 

[Freds]

Some good advice given. I'll throw in my $.02. Heating up the hooks will definitely help pull the weld in and I've used this method before when welding heavy stuff and using a light duty welder (115v), but unless your hooks are very large and therefore much thicker than a standard chain hook, I don't think you'll have any problem getting penetration if you use 1/8" rod at around 125v. Like what was said, keep the stick concentrated on the hook. I like to use a "w" pattern rather than a circle pattern. It will be more natural to swing the rod up onto the hook and keep it there longer and then run the puddle onto the loader and back up again. I've been a sheet metal worker for about 28 years and have done all kinds of welding on diff. materials and from my experience you would almost have to fall asleep after striking your arc to burn a hole in 1/8" carbon steel if you use the right rod (no bigger than 1/8 so your volts shouldn't be much more than 125).
7018 is good rod but tough to get the hang of, it penetrates great but doesn't cut through dirty metal the best and you always have that silica ball to contend with every time you stop and restart. If you have to buy rod I'd pick up something more versatile like a 6011 or 6013 and make sure your welder is set correctly if it has an AC/DC switch. Not all rod works with either setting. It wouldn't hurt to run a grinder over the hooks and loader either so you don't have to fight the plating and the paint. You'll have to touch it up anyway.
Looks like my .02 turned more into 2 buck worth. Hope I've added some help.

Fred

 

[RCR]

6010 first pass 7018 the rest of the way out about 80 amps on a dc machine electrode positive (reverse polarity).weld all the way around 1/4" fillet should be plenty if done right.

 

[RJohnson]

I might suggest that if you are concerned about the thickness of the bucket, then you should weld a 4" or 5" diameter pad of 3/16" thickness to the bucket. Then weld the hook to the pad, the pad will distribute the hook load out over a wider area and give you more resistance to a localized failure.

Randy

P.S. I almost forgot, cadmium in vapor form is very dangerous and should be removed prior to welding.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Since you said you have an AC machine, just use 1/8 6013 rod at around 90 amps and weld the hook to the bucket. I presume you are talking about a small loader here, so weight will be limited to under 800#.
If you really want to do it right, weld the hook to a pad of 1/4 " steel, and then weld the pad to the bucket. Calmping a larger piece of steel to the other side of the bucket will save you a lot of blowthru problems welding to the bucket. Leaving the backing pad in place and welding it to the inside of the bucket will eliminate the potential of ripping the hook off the bucket.
Since you haven't yet learned MIG, I'd leave that idea off the table. You are talking about a situation here where swinging weight will come into play, and a poor weld could get dam expensive in the future.

 

[RocketJSquirrel]

<< Since you said you have an AC machine, just use 1/8 6013 rod at around 90 amps and weld the hook to the bucket. >>

It so happens we have a big box of 3/32" 6013. I used some the other day on a quick and dirty angle iron job. That was my first experience with the AC machine. And it was my first time with the 6013 rod.

I actually burned away some of the angle iron, so that got me a little worried. That's why I posted, I did not want to do that to the bucket. I believe I was using too many amps.

All of the ideas posted are good, re the plating, the backup pads, the preheating, etc. I will do some more practice to see if I can get the settings right.

I'm pretty sure I'll put the hook on a pad and then the pad on the bucket. I'd rather burn a hole in the pad. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif