Well Problem

[Alan L.]

Why would they drill a nearly 1000' well when the water is at 500' and then only put the pump down to 750'?

My well is 500' deep and my pump is at 401'. I guess there is a reason for it. Maybe it has something to do with the head - how far it has to pump the water out?

 

[jonyyuma]

He said 5 hp, that is a large well pump...

 

[Egon]

The aquifer may be at a much lower level that the static head of water.

Gotta drill to the aquifer and then set the pump in correlation to static head and flow rate.:thumbsup:

 

[jonyyuma]

Here, my well was drilled to 150 ft and the pump was at 110, but the pvc pipe is only 3 1/2 in. diameter. No casing?

 

[DiverDarrell]

I had a well run dry at 450ft and the pump thermo tripped when it overheated. I thought I was going to have to replace it, but when I turned off the breaker for a few and re energized it. The water flowed again. My well was drilled to 700ft.

 

[TheGoose]

The pump can easily "weld" itself to the casing in a 4" well. When PVC gets hot it looses it's strength and the pressure on the outside of the well lets it compress. It's not an uncommon problem. Usually happens when the pump is allowed to run dead-headed or run-dry.

The depth of the well and pump are not a set figure. For instance, in that 900' well there is enough pressure at the bottom to push the water up, obviously within 500 ft of the surface. So even though the well is 900', the water is pushed up another 400'. If it came all the way to the top it would be artesian.

Just curious, are you located around MO? I talked to a driller up there who had similar conditions. Wells were 900' and pumps were set at 500'.

 

[boggen]

i have no experience or knowledge of there smaller size wells were the pipe going down into the well clear to the bottom is only 4" to 8" in diameter.

but if you call a local plumber. you might find one that has a camera that might fit down into the well. and allow you to see what is going on clear down in the well.

every now and then i might see something about some local plumber checking waste lines and septic fields using the camera. to see if a tree root or something happened to a given water line that was under ground. and reason why i thought maybe they could do something for your well. with a camera.

open up the phone book actual phone vs internet and goto yellow pages. and look up well. to find the local well drillers. and just out right ask. and see about costs of possible fixing vs drilling a new well.

 

[Western]

Almost sounds like a irrigation well depth around where I live!

I wonder if you could "drop" some dead weight down and jar it loose, like a 10' piece of 1/2 re-bar?? then try to gently pull it.

I have heard of a few wells around here that have collapsed due to the gas exploration going on in the Burnett Shale gas field. (when they stamp the ground for subterranean echoes or whatever it's called)

Sure would be allot of video cable!!

 

[SPIKER]

If you do get a plumber to send down a camera make sure you get a NEW camera would not want them using s sewer inspection camera on you well!

seems there is a lot of well misconceptions in the thread. Water wells and Gas/Oil wells are very different yet seems there are some people crossing some of the technology. For one water wells usually are shallow cased, once the driller hits semi-solid rock/shale/stone the outer steel/PVC casing does not go any farther. The primary casing for water is to prevent ground water (shallow rain water ect) from getting into the well. For the most part the only time casing does go much deeper is when they hit sandy soils that collapse in on the well.
Oil/Gas wells are cased all the way into the oil/gas deposits. They use a lot of drilling mud to help seal up the well casing & remove the cuttings. By monitoring this fluid/mud returning out of the well they can tell what materials are being drilled and when they start hitting gas/oils ect. Once they hit the pockets the mud pressures will spike and let them know they ar into the pressure pockets. there are some great videos showing how this is done one in particular is done by Chesapeake Energy (biggest nat gas driller) check here Media Resources | Chesapeake Energy - America's Champion of Natural Gas

Anyhow what was referred to as WELDING is again NOT welding. it is a result of underground tectonic ***** or simple well bore collapse when water running into/through/around the bore aquifer knocking rocks loose which drop down and land on top of the pump. When you/they try to pull the pump the rock rolls out to the edge and wedges the pump tight to the side wall of the bore. Most submersible pumps have the motor at the bottom of the pump so even if the pump sucks the well dry the motor is still wet/submerged and kept cool due to the water well temps. the DEEP pumps are multiple stages and they can burn out/melt down when this happens as they need the water flowing through them to stay cool. In most cases there is enough in-fill of water to keep water splashing into through the pump even though it cant build pressure it still keeps some water on top of the pumps impeller to stay alive for a while.

My well here in Ohio is only 93 feet deep and is set at 78 feet. the steel 4": casing is down 23 feet, about 3 or 4 feet below the bedrock/sandstone/lime stone rubble. My place is on glacial till and basically what at one time was the bottom of lake Erie that was ground/dug out by the Ice Age and left in large rolling mountains/hill tops. From 18~20 feet down to ?? the material is a broken sandstone that has a lot of fishers and small running/flowing aquifers. It can/does go low on water lat in fall if we run a lot of water quick. this is primary due to the fact it is not used as often as it should to keep these small aquifers open well.
here is a good site for general info Aquifers, from USGS Water Science for Schools


One place to check is the county/state water DNR offices ours has all the legal water wells on the map with depths material make up water flow & sample results posted free to anyone.
here is a nice one for ohio Ground Water Resources Maps for Ohio Images Download Page here is the ohio state well log by county & road http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/water/maptechs/wellogs/app/townships.asp?cnty=5&mode=0&wln=

Mark

 

[TheGoose]

All our wells here are cased all the way down. The casing requirements vary from place to place. Yes, if you have rock you do not need casing in most instances. Some places are all clay and sand like here so you need to case all the way down.

The motor will overheat if it is ran with no fresh cold water flow over it. Like if the pump is dead-headed for an extended amount of time. For instance, if the line between the pump and tank is frozen or plugged and there is no relief valve.

Even a 1/2 HP pump can melt the casing and lock in place. I do not know if it has anything to do with the ground shifting etc. If there is no casing that deep then it would have to be a ground shift.

The casing will melt just enough to lock the pump in place. There is very little clearance between a 4" pump and 4" casing. Once it melts around the pump it's there for life in most cases and even if you could get it out the casing is probably damaged too much.

 

[houstonscott]

Looks like the insurance company has settled and is going to drill a new 980' well. Work is being scheduled and paperwork will accompany at closing. Any suggestions for supervising this job and is there a particular brand of pump that is clearly the best I should demand be installed over another. I have be doing some research and Franklin Electric seemed to bubble to top. Your comments and recommendations.

HS

 

[freddyr]

Looks like the insurance company has settled and is going to drill a new 980' well. Work is being scheduled and paperwork will accompany at closing. Any suggestions for supervising this job and is there a particular brand of pump that is clearly the best I should demand be installed over another. I have be doing some research and Franklin Electric seemed to bubble to top. Your comments and recommendations.

HS

Goulds or myers, grufudess, The franklin electric motors are on 90% of well pumps, Goulds just dropped them a few years ago. Don't go to lowes etc!

 

[TheGoose]

Goulds and Pentair both have the same motor. Goulds calls it Centripro, Pentair (sta rite/ myers) calls it pentek.

Franklin electric bought out jacuzzu a few years back and started making pumps, which is why Goulds/Pentair made their own motor company.

For something that deep I might be inclined to look at the Grundfos, which uses their own motors.

 

[QRTRHRS]

Got lucky on my well today. Got home yesterday around 5pm to find we had no water. I checked the breaker then the pressure switch. Hot on both sides of the switch so I turned off the power, pulled one leg from the pump and checked for continuity. Finding none, I figured the 8-9 year old pump was done for.

I can't lift so I called the HVAC people I use. They were to send someone at noon today but they showed at 8:30 which was better. They pulled the pump and there was all of about 75' of pipe. There was only two of those plastic torque arresters or whatever the proper term is and they were down by the pump. Regardless, the wire had rubbed through. They spliced the wire temporarily and the pump ran so they made the splices permanent and put the pump back in. They did not have any torque arresters so the problem may come back.

So, I got away cheap and if and when the pump quits again, I won't be calling the plumber being that it is that easy to pull. My last property had a pump down 275'.

We do have another issue and that is that the water looks a bit shall we say scuzzy? The water level is about 30 feet below the ground surface and the well driller put in the plastic pipe that you see these days, not iron. Not sure if a pipe joint leaks or what to cause what is probably surface water to get into the well. It may just be a high water table and fractured rock.

I need to get the water tested then put some kind of filter on I guess. Though the water tastes fine and makes good coffee, we drink bottled water because the water in our area is high in minerals. Don't need no kidney stones. We just use it for everything else (and my coffee).

 

[TheGoose]

Was the pump hung on black poly pipe?

 

[QRTRHRS]

Was the pump hung on black poly pipe?

Yes it is. I used to help out a friend who did HVAC, etc., replace well pumps. He liked to replace the black poly with a type of pipe that had two layers. The outer layer was blue while the inner was opaque. He said studies showed that the chemicals that the black pipe is made up of will leach into water. I never looked into that claim, perhaps someone on this site has?

 

[Mousefield]

Goulds and Pentair both have the same motor. Goulds calls it Centripro, Pentair (sta rite/ myers) calls it pentek.

Franklin electric bought out jacuzzu a few years back and started making pumps, which is why Goulds/Pentair made their own motor company.

For something that deep I might be inclined to look at the Grundfos, which uses their own motors.

I have 2 submersible pumps, one in the well and one in our storage tank. The one in the well is a Grundfos, which is rated as one of the best you can buy. 13 years and no problems so far.

 

[TheGoose]

Can't comment on the blue/opaque pipe leaching. Plastic is basically inert as far as I know.

The #1 failure of water well pumps hung on black poly is rubbed wire on the casing. I rarely, if ever, see it happen on other types of installation.

For best results use sch 80 PVC with either brass or stainless couplings. Or they make a special drop pipe which uses male x female fittings built into the pipe. Tape the wire tight every 20' (every joint) and you should never have a problem.

Black polypipe is popular in the northwest and other areas but I personally don't like it.

Yes it is. I used to help out a friend who did HVAC, etc., replace well pumps. He liked to replace the black poly with a type of pipe that had two layers. The outer layer was blue while the inner was opaque. He said studies showed that the chemicals that the black pipe is made up of will leach into water. I never looked into that claim, perhaps someone on this site has?

 

[Larry Caldwell]

You can't trust black poly pipe to hang a pump. You need a healthy plastic safety rope, either poly or nylon, or someday you will be fishing the pump off the bottom of the well.

 

[QRTRHRS]

You can't trust black poly pipe to hang a pump. You need a healthy plastic safety rope, either poly or nylon, or someday you will be fishing the pump off the bottom of the well.

I hear that. When I helped my friend we always did that and I had forgotten about it until you mentioned that. Of course mine has no safety rope but I will put that on my list for when it gets pulled again.