Well repairs,,, OUCH!!

[Professor Marvel]

I know they have drives that run single phase motors. The well pump on a drive I read about on this forum. It was a discussion a few months ago. I was reading about it I wasn't the one telling about it.

 

[BoylermanCT]

I feel your pain. I paid $5600 just last year and that was just a new pump and motor - no new pipe or cable.

I realize everything is bigger in Texas, but the prices you are paying seem out of whack. I had my motor, pump and controls replaced 3 years ago for $1700. My well is 300' deep. I can't imagine piping and wire add thousands to the bill! I hope none of the well people in CT read this. They will all be moving to Texas to cash in!

 

[Professor Marvel]

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/rural-living/331119-well-pumps-variable-speed.html?highlight=
Here is the drive discussion

 

[DarkBlack]

I realize everything is bigger in Texas, but the prices you are paying seem out of whack. I had my motor, pump and controls replaced 3 years ago for $1700. My well is 300' deep. I can't imagine piping and wire add thousands to the bill! I hope none of the well people in CT read this. They will all be moving to Texas to cash in!

He actually wrote "no new pipe or cable", so he paid $5,600 for just the pump/motor swap. That's legal robbery, and that's why I do my own.

 

[DarkBlack]

Show me a VFD designed to run an off the shelf 5HP single phase deep well pump

 

[Professor Marvel]

Show me a VFD designed to run an off the shelf 5HP single phase deep well pump

Don't know much about single phase drives. Just know they exist. I work with all 3 phase pump and fan motors in the HVAC industry. I wanted to experiment with 120v VFD on a fan at my house but the ones I have seen are more than I want to spend for experimenting.

 

[westcliffe01]

I believe that I participated in the 3 phase VFD discussion. I posted some links to where one could get 3 phase pumps. The VFD takes 220/230 Single phase power in and output 3 phase 230V variable frequency to the pump. 3 phase motors are a natural fit to variable frequency. I personally am not aware of any feasible drive systems to control a single phase motor.

I had this same conversation with a well driller in Westcliffe, CO since it was for an off grid application and he was using single phase pumps which were requiring the off grid customers to install very expensive inverters and higher battery capacity to run them. He was not aware that one could run a 3 phase motor off a single phase supply using a drive that cost only $300. The 3 phase well pump was a bit more expensive than an ordinary generic single phase pump, but overall system cost (counting inverter and batteries/solar) was a lot cheaper and could be tailored exactly to the well delivery.

 

[SPIKER]

Yes VFD and single phase motors is possible and have been able to be done for a while.

E2 Single Phase Variable Frequency Drive Overview | Invertek AC Drives

one brand that is available and there are several out there designed for pumps and fan applications other than 3 phase motors. However the 5HP may be an issue if it is a 5HP unit. It would be a shaded pole type motor as pumps in submersible applications generally do NOT have Capacitors in them. The split phase does not have as much torque for starting at lower frequency however should still function. I know some 15 years ago one of the electrical supply houses had these compact VFDs for wells that produced low flow. I don't have their contact info anymore or remember the brand they had but know it was for replacing pressure switches that were on well systems with low flow rates.


Mark

 

[DarkBlack]

That link simply proves what I wrote a page or 2 ago.
The OP of this thread either has to live with it, or have them pull it back up and replace it with either a much smaller single phase motor, or a 3 phase 5HP. I think we've pretty much ruled out the VFD theory for this one.

 

[rmorey]

Why don't they simply do a well test to determine the well's actual gpm inflow, then have the well guy replace the pump with the correct pump. Either that, or he doesn't get paid!

When we had our well drilled two years ago, the guy put a 50 gpm pump down the well, then restricted the flow to match the wells inflow (water level remained constant depth for 30 minutes). A flow gage told him the gpm of the restricted output, hence the inflow of the well is 10 gpm. I ordered a 9 gpm 1 hp 240v pump.

 

[Professor Marvel]

I might have missed it but I have still not heard where the pump is placed in relationship between the static water level and the bottom of the well. If it can be dropped farther down it will allow use of a larger reservoir.

 

[MikePA]

Post #30

Well is 425' deep, pump sits at 400', static water level is 370' so pump only has 30' of water above it. I understand it's a low capacity well. The problem is I believe I have a pump that is oversized if it is a 10gpm as I suspect. The bigger problem is that because the motor is so grossly oversized, it prevents me from adding a pump protection device.

 

[Old Junk Man]

So with 30 feet of water in the very bottom you only have about 40 gallons of water available before your pump starts sucking air. a very small pump and a 30 gallon bladder tank are all that the well can handle & supply. the well guy is a crook or just incopentent or maybe both. and you have a almost useless well. The cure is to drill a deeper well that has more static water thus more capacity.

 

[oldpilgrim]

So with 30 feet of water in the very bottom you only have about 40 gallons of water available before your pump starts sucking air. a very small pump and a 30 gallon bladder tank are all that the well can handle & supply. the well guy is a crook or just incompetent or maybe both. and you have a almost useless well. The cure is to drill a deeper well that has more static water thus more capacity.

yup, you've basically got a dry well.

 

[gsganzer]

I wanted to follow up with some new/final information.

The well guy confirmed it's a 7gpm pump with a 5hp motor. The reasoning for the 5hp motor was so we'd get into a motor with a 1500# thrust bearing rating, as the well guy felt we had a good bit of scale and corrosion present that could damage a lighter constructed motor.(I guess I'll never know the gpm for certain until I pull the pump someday when it fails) I'm not sure I truly buy into the motor upgrade story, but we'll roll with it and see what happens.

I've been playing around with the well over the past week and found that when I had a truly recovered well (10 minutes or longer), I could usually fill the accumulator without going dry (depended on how much I continued drawing off the tank as it was filling). I think for normal household uses, I'll be OK. My concern was that it seemed real easy to get into a dry pump condition and I could see that easily happening if the kids left the water running somewhere.

The well guy came back out this morning and installed a dry pump protector and it works as it's intended (it's actually the model used for a 1.5 to 3hp motor, because we're drawing amperage well below the 5HP full load amps)

Bottom line is this well should really have a smaller pump and a 2000 gallon storage system to be correctly configured.

With that in mind, if the pump goes out in the future, I'll pull it myself and install all the correct equipment. I'm looking at storage tank options so if I ever stumble upon a tank cheap, I'll buy it and have it in place and ready to go.

 

[TnAndy]

1500gal tanks (the largest our local Tractor Supply carries) run about $800 here. I hooked two of them in series for our spring water system, giving us 3,000gal of storage. They are not buried, but in a 10x20 insulated block building.

 

[Old Junk Man]

I know of a off grid home. they have a small spring . It has a water ram that fills a 50 gallon tank. they have a 12 volt system. its wind and solar powered. so they use a 12 volt pump to transfer water from the 50 gal tank to a larger tank up in the rafters of the house. then gravity feed to the faucets ect. solar heated water in the summer. and a wood burning furnace with a water heater for when the sun don't shine. they have a spring house and a propane refrigerator to keep food from spoiling. the water rams output can be diverted to water the garden when needed.

 

[Xfaxman]

Call Cycle Stop Valves 1-800-652-0207, ask if their system would solve your problem> Cycle Stop Valves, Inc.