What all should I put in a trench?

[cisco]

That's a fair distance, and both water flow through a pipe, and electric current through a wire, will diminish a bit. I've a similar run, and put in 12 gauge wire to accomodate a few post lights and the electric gate (all unnecessary, as solar panels will work, albeit at higher initial cost). I was fencing this weekend, a front fence and gate, which I've just installed with much effort (without a post hole digger, I'd never have made it). Anyhow, the miter saw I was using did not have the "umph" it normally has, though it still cut 2"X6" boards, so there is definately an amp draw limitation. I duplicated the loss, roughly, at home by putting a 16 gauge extension cord between my garage outlet (10 gauge wire, within 20 feet of the main electric panel) and the miter saw. Some one on this forum can explain this problem of line loss in technical terms, but the botttom line is you better know how many amps you'll need at the front of your property so you can select wire at least 1 size larger than required for the normal short runs in a house. As to water - do you intend to irrigate/water a large lawn/field? If so, such will really zap your home water pressure if your inflow pipe is marginal. Here again, figure out what your peak flow needs are, and select a pipe 1 size larger than you'd put in a suburban home with similar water demands (given 600-700 feet to your water source).
I agree with the prior posts - if you don't want to lay a second pipe (pulling wire through 600-700 feet is not easy), I'd put another wire in the trench (heck, an intercom won't need more than 16-18 gauge over the distance required), and don't forget a phone line. Now, how about cable TV, or are you going with a satellite?
Texas - I hunted deer there at a friend's ranch over the Christmas break - snowed a bunch as I was getting ready to leave - so, bury your water pipe to the appropriate "never freezes in 100 years" depth (in my area on the coast of SC it's only 10-12", but some of our Northern forum members talk about 4-5' depths -sure would hate to dig a trench that deep).

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

Thanks again guys, I asked a guy who sells meters, valves, and pipe for handling water and he said to see if they'll put a 1" water meter instead of 3/4" and to run at least 1.5" line. He also said that he could sell me the same parts the county water supplier will install for about $250. County charges $1100. I don't think the county will let me buy my own.
My worry is that my home will be about 20 feet higher than the gate hookup, plus the 600-700 feet. I don't know what the pressure is at the street yet. Hopefully near 75 PSI.
Thanks again,
Kyle

 

[wroughtn_harv]

Evening Kyle,

I would get some direct buried telephone cable, five pair, at Home Depot or Lowes and lay it in the trench after shading in the water line.

If you can find one of the contractors with some of the conduit they use for fiber optic cable. Six to seven hundred feet is a remnant. If you don't pick it up for free it should be close to nothing.

This stuff is engineered for ease of pulling. I would place it along with the telephone cable for the gate control in case of future changes.

If you're wanting power at the entrance go with at least a twenty amp service. That's what's recommended for most hundred and ten gate operators.

I'd look at the route the power is using coming to the house. I'd seriously look into maybe having a second meter put for the entrance. When you consider the cost of running electric for twenty amp service versus having a second meter that you can claim for agriculture purpose might be a good thing. Especially if your property is going to be used partly for business then the second meter might also feed a shop etc.

If you decide to go solar operator for your gate keep in mind you can buy a second receiver and transmitter that's designed for long distance. You can have the one low cost common system for the key pad and cars--trucks and have the expensive one so you can operate the gate from the house. Say like when you're planning on company on a Sunday and after everyone leaves you can close the gate from the house.

On your key pad, spend the extra money and get one that has multiple codes. That way service people, friends, friends of kids, etc all get their own code. If and or when they become unwelcome or need access you delete their code without affecting everyone else. You're looking a couple of hundred dollars versus seventy five or so, money well spent over the long haul.

The most important thing about your gate is the hinge post and hinges if it's a swing gate. If it's a slide gate then you want to have the best track and roller system available. If these two things work well then it's easier on the gate operator. The gate operator is like you or me. We'll live longer if life is easier. On this line of thought keep in mind that short changing your electrical service will wear out the motor and system faster than using it for kids as a toy to ride.

Here's pair of gates that are slide and electrically operated. They are finished on both sides. They are approximately fourteen feet of exposed wood each one when the gate is in the closed position and eight feet high. These people have small children. So to keep the equipment safe from a small child climbing on or in under any circumstances the equipment is hidden inside the fence, yup, sorta like a pocket door. Notice there isn't the rollers that you see everyone using to guide the top of slide gates. I have my own system that eliminates them.

These gates have been in place for three years. There are two operators, twice the opportunity for failure. The only service calls after initial debugging first week have involved homeowner klutzitis.

To give you and idea of the mass of these gates, it takes two full grown men using everything they got to open a gate at a time without the operator. They are heavy.

I have another one like this that is larger and has been in use for slightly over two years. They had a failure when we had the snow. I wasn't available so they called in a professional. It cost them ninety seven dollars to be shown the location of the reset button on the motor.

This operator is not some super high dollar wonder machine. It's a common commerical heavy residential unit that cost just a tad more than the economy ones.

If you're looking at a swing gate operator the first thing I recommend you do is start looking for electric gates that are locked into the open position or have the operator hanging there disconnected. You don't want one of those.

One of the better solar units is made down the road from you in San Antonio. I've had great luck with their swing gate operator. But even the cheap units that I wouldn't put on a walk gate like you see at TSC or Home Depot will work for awhile if the hinge post is done right and the hinges are good ones.

If you're going with a single I'd recommend setting the gate back from the road far enough for a truck and trailer to get out of traffic. This also allows you to go with a sixteen to eighteen foot single which is more than enough for anything but large agriculture equipment. They need their own gate anyway. If you decide to put an overhead make sure it's at least fourteen but keep in mind fifteen feet high means no problem for hay trucks, moving vans ets.

Another thing to get is a free exit probe for the gate. This allows visitors or residents to leave without operating a transmitting device. It picks up the mass of a vehicle and that operates the gate one cycle.

I had a service call on one of these awhile back. It seems they'd come home and the gate would be closed but the dogs would be out. The only place the dogs could get out was the gate. As I was checking the circuits etc all of a sudden the gate opened. I looked up surprised as heck.

Their great dane with his big metal collar and umpteen tags was laying down dead on the free exit probe. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I replaced the probe and readjusted it so the fourwheeler would activate it but the dog's collar couldn't.

Hope this helps.

 

[MarkV]

Kyle,
When we trenched for underground power at our weekend home the phone company gave us wire to put in the trench for future phone lines. We never have hooked up a phone but it might be worth a call to see if they offer that service in your area. You also want to make sure you match their specs for the proper wire if you have to buy your own. May also want to check with the inspector and see if you are allowed to run power and water in the same trench. It is OK where I am but not so in some areas.

MarkV

 

[dmccarty]

Kyle,

Talk to you power company and get prices on putting in a
meter at the gate vs running power down from your house
to the gate.

When the power company was putting in my underground
power, I had a chat with the engineer about all of this. I
guess I'm going to have to get a solar power unit. From the
house to the gate will be 1500 feet and I guess I would have
to put in some heavy gage to get the power down the road to
run of the house meter.

I can't remember the price to have them connect the gate
with its own meter and maybe a transformer but I'm pretty
sure it was not cheap. But what really ended the idea
of a second meter was that there was a minimum charge of
$10 per month. I really don't want to spend $120 a year for
a second meter...

So ask you power company and see what they say all of this
would cost you.

I'm pretty sure I'll be using solar....

Later,
Dan

 

[heehaw]

if you put any type of telephone wire in the trench, its a lot cheaper at graybar or greybar???? than at lowes or any other store i have found, so is the electrical wire. i would suggest putting in a pvc line in case you ever want to have compressed air at that location or in that vicinity, of course all the other suggestions too..water, electric, intercom, ??? ???
heehaw

 

[herbenus]

Although my phone was direct buried from gate (about 500 feet), I've had several folks around here say not to direct bury electric. To use conduit because of the moles. I used conduit out to well, although not sure I needed it. But I feel a little safer digging around it. You might ask around if moles are a problem in your area damaging buried wires.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

I don't about the moles liking the taste of telephone and electric cables.

I do know this. The rats have eaten all the silicone jelly in my scotchlocks and they've developed a taste for the grease in the buried drop closures. I had a couple of packages of scotchlocks opened up in a tray. Along side of the tray I had my toolbox with the PVC and buried telephone line repair kits. They've ruined the buried drop kits and the scotchlocks are like peanut hulls all over the place.

In the sixties telephony thought PIC (plastic insulated conductors) cable was the cure all for telephone cable trouble. They figured since plastic was water proof a telephone cable could be laid in a river and even if the water was in it there wouldn't be a problem like there was with the old paper insulated conductors.

In the seventies they'd finally decided that PIC was just as susceptible to cable trouble because of moisture as was paper insulated cable, it just took longer. That's when they came up with grease filled cable to help protect the cable pairs. The grease's primary function is to keep the water from traveling down the cable. A damage is isolated to just that location and the repair is needed there alone. Without the grease the moisture would travel throughout the whole cable and a repair meant the whole cable had to be replaced.

The problem with plastic insulation on telephone pairs is it's porous. The hole aren't visible to the naked eye but they are there. When a cable pair is energized the positive side wants to visit the negative side, think of teenagers and sex. The problem is the copper in the pair wants to have it's fun with the aluminum that's around the cable as a sheath both for protection from abrasion and as a bond to ground.

You can open a cable that's been wet and it will look just fine except for the moisture. But a closer examination will show deposits on the shield or aluminum sheath. You will also see little dark spots on the cable pairs, usually the negative or ground side of the pair. A tug of that conductor and it will stretch and then break apart, copper's gone to have fun with the aluminum.

I'm sure the same process works with electrical lines. If you direct bury them over time and there's any fault in the insulation you will have a problem. It will be at the worst possible time, personal guarantee.

If possible always run telephone and electrical lines in conduit. Not just to protect them either, but for ease of replacement if that ever becomes necessary. Plastic conduit is cheap.