Tractor Sizing What do you use for logging? Prevent my divorce.

[lungdoc]

As a fellow physician (and tractor user) let me perhaps add a bit of perspective...forgive me if I've misunderstood your occupation from your username and prior posts but I think many members are overlooking that fact.

I know a bit about logging as my father in law has 1200 acres with roads and trails in similar country to Vermont in Muskoka Ontario, we have it logged periodically -- selective cutting and run an excavator over the skid trails later to smooth them enough to be maintained with tractor and brush hog later. We cut and move the stuff that falls over roads and trails ourselves but let a neighbour who is a professional logger do the main cutting (winter logging) with skidders.

I'd ask you to stop and think seriously about the safety and economics of what you are planning. Logging is very dangerous especially for non-professionals and even a 'minor' accident could easily knock you out of your profession (say some broken fingers). You can easily hire out the logging and have it done in a couple of weeks - you aren't talking about a large property. You can make enough doing your profession and it makes more sense to do what you are good at (e.g. a few extra call days or some surgical assisting if you are retired) and pay someone to do what they are good at, you'll come out way ahead. I had this same "what the **** am I doing" feeling a few times --like last week changing my own tires for 3 hours (forgot about directional tread on snow tires so did it twice) -- I could see one extra patient and make more than enough to pay someone to do it fast and properly and we all come out ahead.

Now if you like to play in the woods and with equipment there's nothing wrong with that, so do I. However I'd buy what you want/need to maintain your property in general and when logging is done - a nice cabbed tractor with a blower, maybe a backhoe; a vehicle like a Ranger or RTV. Renting (or hiring out) a small excavator to smooth the logging trails into nice trails you can maintain yourself with a bush hog and tractor is an excellent investment in my opinion.

This is a great thread with lots of useful info though!

 

[Dogballs]

Surgeon- I have a 4WD 2008 Kubota M5040 with just under 200 hours that I'm considering selling. I'm in Lamoille County. Send a PM if you are interested.

I don't do any logging but if I did I think any of the Kubota M series would be a good choice for the terrain around here.


Thanks.

 

[arrow]

As a fellow physician (and tractor user) let me perhaps add a bit of perspective...forgive me if I've misunderstood your occupation from your username and prior posts but I think many members are overlooking that fact.

I know a bit about logging as my father in law has 1200 acres with roads and trails in similar country to Vermont in Muskoka Ontario, we have it logged periodically -- selective cutting and run an excavator over the skid trails later to smooth them enough to be maintained with tractor and brush hog later. We cut and move the stuff that falls over roads and trails ourselves but let a neighbour who is a professional logger do the main cutting (winter logging) with skidders.

I'd ask you to stop and think seriously about the safety and economics of what you are planning. Logging is very dangerous especially for non-professionals and even a 'minor' accident could easily knock you out of your profession (say some broken fingers). You can easily hire out the logging and have it done in a couple of weeks - you aren't talking about a large property. You can make enough doing your profession and it makes more sense to do what you are good at (e.g. a few extra call days or some surgical assisting if you are retired) and pay someone to do what they are good at, you'll come out way ahead. I had this same "what the **** am I doing" feeling a few times --like last week changing my own tires for 3 hours (forgot about directional tread on snow tires so did it twice) -- I could see one extra patient and make more than enough to pay someone to do it fast and properly and we all come out ahead.

Now if you like to play in the woods and with equipment there's nothing wrong with that, so do I. However I'd buy what you want/need to maintain your property in general and when logging is done - a nice cabbed tractor with a blower, maybe a backhoe; a vehicle like a Ranger or RTV. Renting (or hiring out) a small excavator to smooth the logging trails into nice trails you can maintain yourself with a bush hog and tractor is an excellent investment in my opinion.

This is a great thread with lots of useful info though!

Aptly said doc. Logging on a constant basis is extremely dangerous. I was in the profession for over 30 years and have been logging my own land 20 years after that. I was fortunate that I did not get bit by any logging accident too badly. But I've seen horrors happen to men I worked with. I sign painted and engine built while in the logging profession. I needed my hands as well but the most important issue you raise is the availability of money intake subject to being a surgeon. Logging on the scale talked about may be putting one's head in the lion's mouth. I think a person ought to have some diversionary interest no matter what his profession. What needs to be weighed and is completely personal, is the balance between having fun, diversification and an interesting life while minimizing putting one's livelihood in jeopardy. Just today i had the same "what the **** am I doing" while taking down a tree for a neighbor that was 24"dbh that had broken in half 15' up creating what I call the " a frame" I mean I knew what I was doing but as I get on in years, more and more trepidation seems to creep in because I do not want to screw up my retirement becoming what I've seen trees do to other people. You make a solid point for this individual and for that matter, many others.

 

[Surgeon]

I am indeed a surgeon but grew up in the woods with a grandfather who did not purchase a chainsaw until he was 76. I had never cut a tree with anything else but an axe and one or two man saw until I was 15. Our only tractor was an old 8N that he owned with his brother. At age 78 he out-split me two cords to one (me with a maul while he used a wedge and sledge). Years later after his death, hurricanes decimated the farm. We lost a huge number of mature oaks. I cut everything out myself. Not having a tractor I did have an uncle pull things out buy he never got off the tractor. I believe I have enough experience to be safe and certainly as a surgeon the experience to be cautious. I always keep everything sharp, use my safety gear and approach problems with the same care as I do in the OR. My recent interaction with loggers in this area has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I am not letting anyone on my land ever again. I am not a treadmill/gym kind of guy. I much prefer to do real labor. There is literally no place I would rather be than the OR but all the rest of what medicine has become today where paperwork and bureaucrats rule requires some time in the woods swinging an axe to keep me sane.

 

[lungdoc]

Fair enough, I am something of a 'weekend redneck' myself. Be especially careful logging alone, though. My father-in-law will go out alone in the woods a fair bit with equipment, we ended up getting him a 'SPOT' satellite tracker so if he were ever injured or stranded we could find him and/or he could summon assistance. Good luck with the equipment hunt and stay safe.

Here's some of our logging from last winter. We're fortunate to have a neighbour who logs, we let him do some hunting on the land so he has an interest in leaving nice skid trails and minimal mess.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

For many of us, the money from an extra hour of overtime won't do squat to pay for hiring someone to come in a do a job for us. There's a world of difference between my $60K per year, our CEO's $700K+ per year, and our plastic surgeon's $1.2M+ per year.

On the flip side, everyone needs a hobby to unwind with. Some can be very exhausting or extremely technical, or extremely hazardous. Accidents downhill skiing, skydiving, hang gliding, horseback riding, etc. while not as common as logging or farming, can and often are just as much show stoppers for a career as accidentally cutting off half your fingers with a chainsaw. And for those of us in the information technology field, those fingers are just as important for our livelihood as fingers for a surgeon or a musician.

 

[PaleFX]

I am indeed a surgeon but grew up in the woods with a grandfather who did not purchase a chainsaw until he was 76. I had never cut a tree with anything else but an axe and one or two man saw until I was 15. Our only tractor was an old 8N that he owned with his brother. At age 78 he out-split me two cords to one (me with a maul while he used a wedge and sledge). Years later after his death, hurricanes decimated the farm. We lost a huge number of mature oaks. I cut everything out myself. Not having a tractor I did have an uncle pull things out buy he never got off the tractor. I believe I have enough experience to be safe and certainly as a surgeon the experience to be cautious. I always keep everything sharp, use my safety gear and approach problems with the same care as I do in the OR. My recent interaction with loggers in this area has left such a bad taste in my mouth that I am not letting anyone on my land ever again. I am not a treadmill/gym kind of guy. I much prefer to do real labor. There is literally no place I would rather be than the OR but all the rest of what medicine has become today where paperwork and bureaucrats rule requires some time in the woods swinging an axe to keep me sane.

Good on ya Surgeon, I've done small scale logging with everything from ATV's to bulldozers, and the one thing I hated most was coming up short on hp when I was needed it! But it happened with every piece of equipment we used!
I would size the tractor based on what will work for ALL your projects then log within the limits of the tractor.
I agree the M series Kubota sounds to be about where you want start looking, but reasonable physical size, good hp options and able to rig with strong loader options.
Trees fall in cities too... if you're not careful one of those could squash you!

 

[Brokermike]

My interaction with loggers in my area is exactly why I harvest my own timber to keep up with my timber management plan. Even my forester commented that there isn't enough money left in logging (with a cable skidder and saw) to keep the good guys in the business, and none of my prescribed cuts are big enough to even come close to attracting anyone with a feller buncher

 

[Chilly807]

My interaction with loggers in my area is exactly why I harvest my own timber to keep up with my timber management plan. Even my forester commented that there isn't enough money left in logging (with a cable skidder and saw) to keep the good guys in the business, and none of my prescribed cuts are big enough to even come close to attracting anyone with a feller buncher

This is pretty much the same story in all of North America these days. I've never before seen messes like those left behind by so-called professional loggers. If there's one common theme, it's "cut it and get to the next job".

Part of the problem has been the evolution from axes to chain saws to harvesters. An axe will run you about $35, a chain saw (even pro models) maxes out about $1000, and harvesting equipment can have you tied up for close to $250,000... small wonder that they have to be kept running as close to 24 hours a day as possible to break even and make money on a good day.

It's getting to the point that wood growth can't keep up with cutting demands in some markets. My property isn't big enough to support even a casual chain saw logging campaign, but even if I owned more property no one would be cutting on it except me. I've seen too many properties virtually destroyed by harvesters determined to get every last stick of wood, and the mess left behind. I've seen good hauling roads ruined, with three foot deep ruts left by skidders, etc.

I wait until the ground is either dry or frozen hard before I cut and haul, and if I only get a couple trees a day that's fine too.

Sean

 

[SpringHollow]

I hire an independent forester to mark the trees to get the result I desire and then he puts it out to bid. There are always clauses dealing with final trail conditions etc. and strict penalties for taking unmarked trees. The forester then checks on their work throughout the job. It also helps that they want the chance to bid on future jobs from the forester. I would not do the serious logging myself. But then this is very steep ground and easier to get into trouble. The ravines were virgin forest because it was too hard for the horses to log them.

Ken